Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff

[Arkandel]

The wince from my coworker who's fifteen years younger and eight centimeters taller, when he realized I was the one defending him in our basketball run tonight.

Hell yeah, it's kind of silly-competitive because who cares about this stuff, but it still makes me feel like the work I put in is paying off.

[Tyche]

Being prescribed several types of insulin by a new endocrinologist. The pharmacy calling and telling me after insurance the cost will be $757 for a months supply. After a long pause with some minor chest pain, I told them not to fill it. Now I've got decent insurance and being a diabetic for 10+ years I've seen the cost go from $90 to $200 a month in the last 5 years for pens.
Anyway I went another doctor and asked for second opinion. He prescribed me a similar but different types of insulin N and insulin R. After insurance these are $50 each or $100 a month. And he told me if I don't use insurance I can get insulin R for $25 each. I seems WalMart is buying this insulin in bulk from a European manufacturer, so they're not evil. I just post this if anyone finds it useful.
Why the hell is American insulin being sold at 700% higher than it was 10 years ago?!!
Supply and demand...mmm.. I want to know.

[Rinel]

@Tyche said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

Why the hell is American insulin being sold at 700% higher than it was 10 years ago?!!
Supply and demand...mmm.. I want to know.

Because corporations have established monopolies and destroyed any reins on them through regulatory capture.

[Tinuviel]

@Tyche said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

Why the hell is American insulin being sold at 700% higher than it was 10 years ago?!!
Supply and demand...mmm.. I want to know.

That's a big concern for Brits, too. My sister's a diabetic and if the UK leaves the European Union it may be difficult to get a hold of synthetic insulin as much of it is made on the continent.

[Tyche]

@Rinel said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

@Tyche said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

Why the hell is American insulin being sold at 700% higher than it was 10 years ago?!!
Supply and demand...mmm.. I want to know.

Because corporations have established monopolies and destroyed any reins on them through regulatory capture.

Well there are 3 American corporations manufacturing insulin. So I'm not going to put it down to just a monopoly and what not. Because generally I'm not anti-corporatist.

[Wretched]

@Tyche I have really good insurance, but even i just had to change back from humalog to R, a choice between $10 and $80 a fill. And i thought I had it bad, what you are dealing with is ridiculous.

[Tyche]

@Wretched said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

@Tyche I have really good insurance, but even i just had to change back from humalog to R, a choice between $10 and $80 a fill. And i thought I had it bad, what you are dealing with is ridiculous.

Yes, that's the one exactly. My insurance basicly punted and said we not covering much of this.
Humalog KwikPen Prices. This Humalog KwikPen price guide is based on using the Drugs.com discount card which is accepted at most U.S. pharmacies. The cost for Humalog KwikPen injectable solution (100 units/mL) is around $541 for a supply of 15 milliliters, depending on the pharmacy you visit.

I get this is a brand name and there are no generics available. So I expect they can charge pretty much whatever they want because there are indeed alternatives. So perhaps my complaint in some sense is focused on the doctor who decided this is what I should be prescribed. Are they more influenced by advertising than we are?

[Ganymede]

@Tyche said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

Are they more influenced by advertising than we are?

It seems almost like, if someone stepped in to standardize and regulate prices, you'd see a fairer distribution system than the one many Americans, like you, face today.

Like, you know, Canada.

[Tyche]

@Ganymede said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

It seems almost like, if someone stepped in to standardize and regulate prices, you'd see a fairer distribution system than the one many Americans, like you, face today.

Like, you know, Canada.

Oh come one. You and Canada. It's like it's in your blood like holy wine. It taste so bitter and so sweet.

We do have a Federal government agency that has stepped in to standardize, regulate, and codified prices. See Medicare/Medicaid. That's roughly 30% of the market is price regulated. The cost overage is shifted by providers to the private sector. I recall many moons ago I made the statement that whatever the government subsidizes costs more.

Anyway in Ohio, the Cleveland Clinic system and University Hospital systems both claimed that they do indeed lose money on medicare/medicaid. However when the ACA passed both of them lobbied the governor to expand both under the ACA rules. Does that make any sense?

[Ganymede]

@Tyche

I'm aware of Ohio. I live in Ohio. My partner went to the Cleveland Clinic for care.

Yes, they will lose money. Have you ever wondered why? Could it possibly be because they are paying exorbitant costs for other kinds of treatment? Could it be because they built their business model on the same system that is charging the shit out of you for a fucking basic drug?

Caresource is expanding. It primarily uses Medicare/Medicaid and Obamacare to provide insurance to low-to-medium income families. A profit can, has, and will be made where business models can adapt.

Some businesses refuse to do so. Maybe because of the profit they are currently benefiting from.

Why people like you still support the system that so clearly exploits you is beyond me.

[Tinuviel]

@Tyche said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

Anyway in Ohio, the Cleveland Clinic system and University Hospital systems both claimed that they do indeed lose money on medicare/medicaid. However when the ACA passed both of them lobbied the governor to expand both under the ACA rules. Does that make any sense?

It does if one assumes the point of a hospital or a clinic is to treat the ill and tend the injured, and not to make money.

[Tyche]

@Ganymede said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

@Tyche

I'm aware of Ohio. I live in Ohio. My partner went to the Cleveland Clinic for care.

I'm aware you're well aware of Ohio. I also went to Cleveland Clinic because of many past experiences with other facilities. It is far superior IMO.
I think we both agree that ACA should be repealed... but for different reasons.

Yes, they will lose money. Have you ever wondered why? Could it possibly be because they are paying exorbitant costs for other kinds of treatment?

Quite right. "Big pharma" is just a small piece of a much larger puzzle. It's not "big insurance" either... I worked for many insurance companies over the years.

Could it be because they built their business model on the same system that is charging the shit out of you for a fucking basic drug?

I have nothing against our tiny neighbor to the north. However, Canada is not a one-word solution the U.S. medical system problems. We have the potential for 50 solutions here sans the Federal system regulating the entire US market.

And have you ever given thought to how Canada and the rest of the world have and still benefits from public and private medical research in the United States because of that business model. You know like half of the entire world's spending. And the reason it IS spent here.

Why people like you still support the system that so clearly exploits you is beyond me.

Are you one of those that suggest that I might not be acting in my own enlightened interest. Is it possible that I might be deplorable?

[TNP]

@Tyche said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

Why the hell is American insulin being sold at 700% higher than it was 10 years ago?!!

Because they can.

[Ganymede]

@Tyche said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

Are you one of those that suggest that I might not be acting in my own enlightened interest. Is it possible that I might be deplorable?

Whether or not one is deplorable is not dependent upon whether one works against one's own interest. Similarly, working against one's own interest does not make one deplorable.

And have you ever given thought to how Canada and the rest of the world have and still benefits from public and private medical research in the United States because of that business model. You know like half of the entire world's spending. And the reason it IS spent here.

There are lots of reasons why a lot of research is done in the United States, and I see no reason to believe that it is solely due to how the medical industry works in this country.

That aside, where are the results of that research? For all of that spending, the United States isn't within a sling's shot of the top 10 nations for health and wellness. We can draw a lot of conclusions based on anecdotes, but I would like to think that a nation that is spending around $110B on medical research would have comparable results to its birth rate and life expectancy.

What is really said is that, while U.S. investment in medical research is actually dropping, so is its status in overall R&D. While it is #1 in the world for total spending, it is #11 for % GDP. The country ranks behind Israel and Switzerland for % GDP spending, which is sad for a nation whose economic dominance was largely based on its ability to out-research other nations.

All of that aside, it is economically feasible to cover every American with Medicare / Medicaid at the current compensation levels. Despite the proliferation of the cruelty of social medicine, there are still many, many Nobel Prize recipients in the field of medicine or physiology that hail from socialist nations, just as there are Americans.

It is not infeasible to devise a system that works better. The private industry has made some "breakthroughs" that have helped to lower costs, but the industry itself has to be regulated by government if it is to survive. From what I've observed, it is the competition itself that makes the system fail.

[Macha]

My anxiety has been running at red line levels this week. I feel having that whole shaking, can't breathe, heart racing like it's going to explode thing... and of course, this is the week my therapist is out of town.

[surreality]

@Macha All the <3. I wish I could help. It's an awful feeling, but please know you're not alone and there are folks who give a damn.

[Rinel]

@Tyche said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

@Rinel said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

@Tyche said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

Why the hell is American insulin being sold at 700% higher than it was 10 years ago?!!
Supply and demand...mmm.. I want to know.

Because corporations have established monopolies and destroyed any reins on them through regulatory capture.

Well there are 3 American corporations manufacturing insulin. So I'm not going to put it down to just a monopoly and what not. Because generally I'm not anti-corporatist.

I refer you to regulatory capture. And oligopolies are functionally the same as monopolies.

[Auspice]

All the anxiety.

[Rinel]

@Auspice said in Health and Wealth and GrownUp Stuff:

All the anxiety.

Oh, you're collecting it? Here, lemme give you mine. No, seriously, it's free.

I can commiserate. It's hell.

I'm debating whether or not I'm going to go see Detective Pikachu next week, in a theater that is at worst a five minute drive from my house, simply because I don't want to have my agoraphobia trigger a panic attack. And of course not going is avoidant behavior which is bad, but for goodness' sake can I just enjoy a fun pure thing without pain?

[Macha]

So after high anxiety ALL WEEK ...today it's like it fucking jumped off a cliff, after there was high drama in the old townhome last night. I think one of my roommates is making my anxiety worse, so.. yay for the move plan I have in place? (And no stairs in the new place)