Cyberrun

[Tinuviel]

@Misadventure said in Cyberrun:

This isn't remotely the discussion? Funny, I thought I was part of the discussion, and it seems related to me: IC mental versus IC physical ages and players seeking RP that either just skeeves people or is outright depicting what would be illegal most everywhere.

Yes, it's not the discussion. We're talking specifically about adult players of MU*s playing children in sexual situations. Not what an actor did, or what an author wrote. We're not debating whether such things should be done in or for art, we're debating whether things should be done in our hobby.

[Thenomain]

@Groth said in Cyberrun:

@Misadventure
The important part especially when you're dealing with artificial beings isn't the number of years the character has existed but if it presents as an adult or a child.

This is why Nekkopara, the video game, disgusts me. The cat-people the antagonist has sex with aren’t even close to emotional maturity.

... And I liked Pris. Nothing in Blade Runner unnerved me at all. This may be telling for my psychological profile, mind.

[Ghost]

@Misadventure said in Cyberrun:

@Ghost Misleading? Did you not watch Blade Runner? They are emotionally children. The memories are "cushions", the bodies artificial. They have restraint, true, but little maturity at all. The actress was 22? The players people are concerned about are very likely as old or older, so maybe not the best measurement?

That's (that they were emotionally children) up to interpretation. For starters, they didn't qualify as a human, nor did they qualify as children in the same sense as a born human from gestation to MaidenMotherCrone stage. Blade Runner wasn't about the mistreatment of children; it was about the creation of artificial beings who longed to be free. Their models were four years old, but they were not modeled (nor did they behave) as four year old children. They were not depicted as, played by, or designed to be sexualized children.

This is entirely a different subject and non-concept to human adults roleplaying as children for TS roleplay.

Age is a number. Yes. Maturity is subjective. Yes. There are, in existence, 16 year olds with more responsibility and rational thinking than their own parents.

I think a good question to ask here is: "Why is it so important to play a legal minor on a sex-based RP game, and not an immature legal adult; perhaps even a teen 18-19?"

I'll take the bold step here (trigger warning) and say that its important to remember that the so-called adrenaline kick from the crime of paedophilia has nothing to do with driving across the state line of "18" to thumb your nose at societal laws regarding age. No. It's about the focusing of sexual energy towards a figure perceived to be a child or child-like. It's ultimately about the sexualizing and violation of perceived innocence while being well aware that it is wrong.

So, even if a character is an 85 year old man in the shell of a 12 year old body, a sexual scene involving this configuration is providing an outlet for paedophilia on the part of the 85/12 year old, and roleplaying of a sex crime on the part of that character getting hot on the human-appearing shell of a 12 year old.

It's paedophilia. Role-playing this online and enjoying it doesn't not make one a paedophile just because they (allegedly) havent done it in real life. Paedophilia doesn't make exceptions between "fantasizing of" or "physically partaking in".

I think you're obscuring the overall point, but I think you're definitely driving in a specific direction. What exactly are you trying to play Devil's Advocate towards, here? That there is bias in play and that it's no big deal that adults would simulate sexualized children because there is a pre-existing precedent in film?

I'm currently discussing whether or not it's okay for people to roleplay fucking 12 year old appearing characters on online RPG spaces. Can someone explain to me A) why this is even being debated and B) help me justify the 5-10 minutes it took me to write this?

[Rinel]

@Ghost said in Cyberrun:

I think a good question to ask here is: "Why is it so important to play a legal minor on a sex-based RP game, and not an immature legal adult; perhaps even a teen 18-19?"

Bingo.

[Trix]

I've played characters in non-sex based games that were youthful appearing or that were actually around sixteen. They had been made that way so that they could grow up into their lives and adult personalities IG to make more of an organic backstory.

Most of the time this went just fine, but every once in a while you have players that make the entire experience uncomfortable. I've found that it's better to not play those characters, no matter what type of game it is or your own intentions - they draw the wrong attention from people that don't have the same intentions.

Aside - I am still boggling over someone flying up to me on Flyff years ago, asking me to be their 'owner' and to tell them naughty things for them to do to that would 'please' me. They chased me around a hunting ground on my broom until I logged off. That is NOTHING compared to some MU* stories I've got.

[Thenomain]

@Ghost said in Cyberrun:

What exactly are you trying to play Devil's Advocate towards, here? That there is bias in play and that it's no big deal that adults would simulate sexualized children because there is a pre-existing precedent in film?

In attempt to help @Misadventure back off Soapbox, where he was absolutely happier (cough cough), I can answer this one:

Mis usually looks at the bigger picture, using examples that we accept to question why we do or don't accept something else that seems similar. I think you've answered this pretty thoroughly, but since you're asking the question, let me pull up something else that is the-same-but-different.

When browsing Comixology, I was suggested a comic where an 84 year-old woman was transferred to an Oz-like world in the body of a 10 year-old girl. And her adventures of murder. Why is that even a little bit okay?

I can answer my own question, though: Because the fantasy of murder is a one of action on the part of an adult, while the fantasy of fucking an adult-in-a-child's-body is almost always one of fucking a child. Fucking a child's mentality in an adult's body plays on the same trope.

Are replicants children? Sure we can have that discussion, but it's secondary to the above. It's honestly a distraction.

What I'm saying is that I agree with you 99.999999% completely, to get my Sigma-Six out there. If someone can write a story that's about something other than the sexual taking of innocence, it would be worth adding to our fictional lexicon. Again I will casually mention Lolita, which is among other things about horrible and broken our main character is.

But hopefully that answers your question about why Mis was phrasing things the way he was. "Because what makes replicants not-children." Let's use another thread for that one, though.

[Auspice]

I also don't think 'because I want to explore the psychology' is as valid when it comes to roleplay. Because you aren't exploring it on your own: you're dragging other people (sometimes unwillingly) along for the ride.

There are novels that involve teenagers having sex. It's limited because publishers aren't keen on having too much of it out there (and with how people will obsess over underage actors/their characters, is it any surprise? jesus I still remember all the 'I can't wait until she's 18 hurr hurr hurr' about Emma Watson), but it exists.

And the reason it's 'okay' is because it's written purely from the prospective of the teenagers and it's one person writing.

On games a lot of the time it's: Underage PC and Adult PC.
That's a yikes.

And justifying RPing pedophilia to 'explore the psychology' is also yikes because again: you're dragging other people (knowing or not).

[Thenomain]

@Auspice said in Cyberrun:

I also don't think 'because I want to explore the psychology' is as valid when it comes to roleplay. Because you aren't exploring it on your own: you're dragging other people (sometimes unwillingly) along for the ride.

But this is true for all roleplay. Almost all of my characters are "I want to explore the psychology". I've RPd with people's exploration and I wasn't too keen on it, and I made decisions whether or not I wanted to RP with them again.

I've had the same done to me and people whose RP I was fine with.

This is a thing we do and it's not something that should be considered wrong to do. This is our hobby time. We agree to play the game placed in front of us, but nobody should micromanage what that means. It means I play with who I want to when I want to.

I have one strong rule, however: Don't force me into your kink. An underaged character? Fine, though I expect it to go off the rails in any given moment because adults play kids like a hippo plays doctor. An underaged character going public with their recent rape scene? I'm out.

I want to think that people are socially aware about this, but in this hobby we've dealt with enough people who aren't socially aware that the knee-jerk reaction is "underaged characters on an adult-themed game will always be pedo-bait". This is true enough that a rule about it is not unexpected. The "no rape" rule is already fairly universal.

But there are people who can do it right. And there are people who can handle it well. And as long as it isn't pedo-bait, I don't see why people can't explore the growth of a character.

I also don't see why people can't say "not on my game". Run the game you want people to play. Play the game you want to play.

Peace out.

[Auspice]

@Thenomain said in Cyberrun:

I have one strong rule, however: Don't force me into your kink.

'Exploring the psychology of a character' isn't bad, no. I didn't say it was.

I was saying it's a bad excuse to do exactly what your rule is about.

It was brought up in this very thread earlier, in the sense of: 'why is it so bad to want to RP underage sex if I want to explore the psychology of it.'
It's bad for many of the reasons you put forth and more.

[Thenomain]

@Auspice said in Cyberrun:

@Thenomain said in Cyberrun:

I have one strong rule, however: Don't force me into your kink.

'Exploring the psychology of a character' isn't bad, no. I didn't say it was.

I was saying it's a bad excuse to do exactly what your rule is about.

You said it in direct response to someone who said they did it to learn the character organically, giving no indication that they did so for--or even had--The TS.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I'll try to be clearer next time.

[Trix]

I disagree that all characters of that sort should be viewed that way, especially if the player is rebuffing those advances. Unless they are specifically advertising that they are seeking out TS, it is silly to assume that a player wants that attention. That is a weird sort of blaming for another player's assumptive behavior. If the game options exist to make one type of character, it makes no sense that only those wanting to TS with it should feel comfortable playing it. That DOES make it weird.

I've played a near-anime-level cutesy character a couple of times and tried to grow them into a kickass older character. You just turn down offers of TS and, if possible, circumvent the type of folk that wanna roflstomp that character type. The violence is harder to get away from than the flirting honestly; people find less wrong with that for some reason.

Still, it's not uncommon to get unsolicited TS messages in any game, at any time, asking for all sorts of blink-worthy play that will make you want to wash someone's mouth out with soap. As someone else basically said earlier, I say no and let others do their thing while I do my own.

[Tinuviel]

@Trix said in Cyberrun:

make you want to wash someone's mouth out with soap

I'm not sure the mouth is the part you need to think about washing...

[Staricide]

@Rinel said in Cyberrun:

@Ghost said in Cyberrun:

I think a good question to ask here is: "Why is it so important to play a legal minor on a sex-based RP game, and not an immature legal adult; perhaps even a teen 18-19?"

Bingo.

I think it's worth pointing out that CyberRun doesn't let people play legal minors. In that every character is age locked to be at least 18, you can just play an over eighteen year old in a physically younger body aka an immature legal adult.

I've played CyberRun, my experience was that it's a pretty fun Cyberpunk sandbox, it's perfectly viable to play it without TSing, but it requires more self-starting than most players probably can manage. So far the community is lovely though.

This is probably my favorite event from it if people are interested in what kind of things happen there: https://cyberrun.net/log/viewevent?id=66

[Deleted]

I thought about giving the game a try, but at this point I do not have the energy to learn a new game or desire to play something statless.

Heck I don't even play on Cybersphere or Sindome right now. I'd kill for a decent cyberpunk game.

[Ghost]

@Staricide said in Cyberrun:

In that every character is age locked to be at least 18

May wanna rethink that definition of every.

Here

Or

Here

Or

Here

Or

18 minus 2 equals 7 in San Quentin

Or

Jesus Christ

Or

Why am I finding so many???

Or

This one's 15! Str8 Outta Jr High, a crazy mothafucka named Teen-Cube

Or

Props to the wiki developer for making this page so easy to navigate

All on the "established" page.

I didn't click on their "X-profiles" because I don't have a login and HEY, dont really give a fuck about the kinks of minors.

[Ominous]

@Ghost said in Cyberrun:

I didn't click on their "X-profiles" because I don't have a login and HEY, dont really give a fuck about the kinks of minors.

I suspect ageplay is a very safe and very skeevy bet.

[Ghost]

@Ominous Lets not wrongfun them now.

[Ominous]

@Ghost

True. That might be one of their other kinks, and we don't want to encourage them.

[Ghost]

@Ominous said in Cyberrun:

@Ghost

True. That might be one of their other kinks, and we don't want to encourage them.

But, for the record, I know I'm not exactly cooool. I don't have an awesome car or dont own the new Atari system. I know some people might not think that I'm cool because I'm not down with the kids and own the new Steely Dan album.

But yanno what I heard is pretty cool?

Not being into simulated sex with minors.

[Ghost]

@Ominous Wanna know what sucks? A month or so ago I just clicked on a few profiles and saw one was 16. So when I went to find that one profile I saw that was a minor I clicked on one, but I didn't remember that PB. So, I decided to browse.

Nope. More than one I suppose.