Windows 8 & 10 - Thread Updated

[ThatOneDude]

Not sure if its been posted yet... But you'll all be better off on a mac.

Just saying! Windows 10 is trying to be OS X and failing, and the good things I hear are basically ports of OS X >.>

[Miss Demeanor]

Fuck a bunch of Apple! I refuse to support anything so overpriced and ridiculously unwilling to work with ANYTHING not Apple.

[Thenomain]

@Miss-Demeanor said:

Fuck a bunch of Apple! I refuse to support anything so overpriced and ridiculously unwilling to work with ANYTHING not Apple.

I personally refuse to support hot-button talking points that are provably false.

[Arkandel]

@Thenomain said:

@Miss-Demeanor said:

Fuck a bunch of Apple! I refuse to support anything so overpriced and ridiculously unwilling to work with ANYTHING not Apple.

I personally refuse to support hot-button talking points that are provably false.

By what metric are you willing to prove Apple products are not overpriced?

[Thenomain]

@Arkandel said:

@Thenomain said:

@Miss-Demeanor said:

Fuck a bunch of Apple! I refuse to support anything so overpriced and ridiculously unwilling to work with ANYTHING not Apple.

I personally refuse to support hot-button talking points that are provably false.

By what metric are you willing to prove Apple products are not overpriced?

By the metric that "overpriced" (edit: in this context) is a subjective statement.

On a wider scale, "overpriced" is determined by the market, and I'd like to see someone conclusively prove that Apple computers are priced higher than the market is willing to pay. As Apple computers, laptops and desktops, recently (not the previous Quarter, I think, but the one previous) had a gain in volume growth where all other platforms reported a loss I think should be a pretty good indicator that the market does not consider them overpriced.

I'm pretty sure that the previous Quarter, if Apple reported a loss on their desktop (and laptop) growth that they still held better results over every other personal computer company.

So, yeah, talking-points vs. talking.

[HelloRaptor]

@Thenomain

On a wider scale, "overpriced" is determined by the market, and I'd like to see someone conclusively prove that Apple computers are priced higher than the market is willing to pay.

That is... not at all true. What? People are willing to pay for all sorts of overpriced shit, which is one of the reasons why things get overpriced so readily in the first place. Until people aren't willing to pay for it, there's little incentive to drop prices, and when you're effectively offering something people can't really get elsewhere, you're free to overprice your shit as much as you like until you find a breaking point.

If you really want an apple instead of an orange, and I'm the only guy who can sell you an apple, the fact that your craving for apples leads you to pay a 300% markup doesn't mean I'm not selling you some wildly overpriced shit. It just means you were really in the mood for an apple so were willing to put up with my bullshit to get one.

Hell, sometimes overpricing something is a goddamn business strategy. Convince enough people that something is way more awesome than it is and jack up the price according to your expectations of how gullible they are.

[Miss Demeanor]

Basically... what Raptor said.

[ThatOneDude]

Or, you create a business model where you have a set list of hardware that you manufacture to your specs to run your software so you can promise a more reliable experience. You then test with only those devices and provide a better/fluid user experience. With that you have a set price point and word of mouth from a number of your customers speak to how long their equipment lasts and the actual value over time for their purchase.

Its like anything else though I guess in that we get what we pay for right?

My point with Apple was only that its funny when I hear things that people think are so great in Windows 10 that have been on the Mac OS for years, yet those same people claim to despise OS X/Apple/Mac <haven't heard it hear yet but the haters at the office>.

IE: Oh shit man, I can have multiple "desktops" now... <check out linux/OS X has been doing forever>.

Bro... when I started my machine up today all my shit I had open last night reopened after I logged back in <sounds like my OS x>, ect ect ect.

Don't get me wrong, I use Windows all day at the office both desktop and server flavors along with various versions of linux. I've just learned when I'm off the clock and want to relax my MacBook Pro+iPhone+AppleTv=Easy living.

[Thenomain]

@HelloRaptor

People, yes. I made a statement about people at the start of the fucking post. Jesus, learn to read before trying to be the Expert On Everything next time.

If you really want an apple instead of an orange, and I'm the only guy who can sell you an apple

What the fuck does this have to do with ... anything? Congratulations for making up your own scenario, I guess?

Wow, this is so much fun, throwing logical fallacies around. I was hoping we could keep on the happy Windows 10 Info-Train, but Miss Demeanor had to rev up the Stupid Wagon and Ark and you just had to pile on with the twin baboon howling of "prove it" and "no prove it harder". So, yeah, no, stuff your illogic down each other's throats; I'm not playing.

[HelloRaptor]

@Thenomain said:

So, yeah, no, stuff your illogic down each other's throats; I'm not playing.

Clearly you are.

There's no logical fallacies here. You said that if people were willing to pay for it, it couldn't be overpriced, and that is an incredibly stupid thing to say. Get your panties twisted all you want, but it is.

@ThatOneDude

My point with Apple was only that its funny when I hear things that people think are so great in Windows 10 that have been on the Mac OS for years, yet those same people claim to despise OS X/Apple/Mac <haven't heard it hear yet but the haters at the office>.

You've been able to do virtually all those things in Windows, too, just not native to the OS. People are basically lazy, though, so they're probably unaware of that as well.

I do generally despise Apple machines, but mostly due to compatibility issues and proprietary nonsense. I used to work with them over a decade ago, which I do understand is very different than now in a lot of ways, but I generally found them to be a real pain in the ass whenever I wanted to tinker with the OS or the hardware. Add to that the fact that I just do not even have the patience to fuck around with Wine (and given the number of Apple enthusiasts I know who dual boot windows so they don't have to, that's not exactly a rare thing), and I just see zero benefit. For me, anyway.

Truthfully for the vast majority of computer users there's functionally zero difference other than learning curve with whatever they aren't used to, between Windows and OS-whatever. They use browsers, they do email, they change virtually nothing. Neither is really better for either, but when my friends like that come around to wanting a new computer I'll pretty much always guide them towards letting me build them something that'll have considerably better specs for a fraction of the price.

[Thenomain]

@HelloRaptor said:

You said that if people were willing to pay for it, it couldn't be overpriced

Where the rubbing the face and sighing icon?

(Thenomain:) illogic
(HR:) There's no logical fallacies here

Again here.

(Thenomain:) I'm not playing.
(HR:) Clearly you are.

Again here.

Okay, now I'm playing, because I'm rather sick and tired of people in the general world declaring something "stupid" with about as much support as Trump in front of an audience thinking "debate" is what happens on Maury Povich. (Oh choose your own "shrilling harpy hour" TV show. I don't watch this stuff.) I don't much care if I don't rate more than the three seconds it takes to come up with quips and one-liners, but they are nothing more than quips and one-liners. They are not anything close to factual, and "not logical" is not "logical fallacy". It's just "wrong".

If I was shot down by someone who knew what they were talking about, sure, but "because I say so" is worth pointing out to me, panty-twisting or not.

(edit: for some reason, my browser was not nesting the quotes properly, making me look like I was calling myself an idiot. I mean, sure, I often do call myself an idiot, but in this case it was confusing what I was saying. So anyway, fixed.)

[HelloRaptor]

@Thenomain

Okay, now I'm playing

It's cool, we know you never really stopped to begin with.

(Thenomain:) illogic
(HR:) There's no logical fallacies here
<snip>
They are not anything close to factual, and "not logical" is not "logical fallacy". It's just "wrong".

...sorry, was I supposed to just assume you couldn't keep track of your own posts? Did the space between my first line replying directly to the bit I quoted and the bit addressing you in general just... confuse you? Maybe this will help, leaving aside my poor grammar:

(Thenomain:) Wow, this is so much fun, throwing logical fallacies around.
(HR:)There's no logical fallacies here

The one time I don't quote shit line by line and it gets you hung up in the most ridiculous way. You brought up logical fallacies, I disputed that any were in play. You might want to read for comprehension before berating me for thinking you said something you didn't say absolutely said.

[Miss Demeanor]

People buying something doesn't make it a reasonably priced product. People buy stupid shit ALL THE TIME that's not worth the amount of money paid for it. The market doesn't determine whether something is reasonably priced, it merely tracks how many people are buying what products. In other words, its tracking popularity of products, not determining whether or not they're overpriced. A product is easily capable of being both popular AND overpriced.

[Thenomain]

@HelloRaptor said:

@Thenomain

Okay, now I'm playing

It's cool, we know you never really stopped to begin with.

Man, I have no idea how you do this mind reading trick. How much to hire you as my therapist?

The one time I don't quote shit line by line and it gets you hung up in the most ridiculous way.

Now you know how I feel, here.

(A "no you", Theno? Really?)

---

Miss, my point originally was meant to be that "reasonable" in the wider market is what the wider market is willing to bear. One person's opinion doesn't change this. HR's insistence that All Is Specs doesn't change this. It may not be worth it for you, and that is an interesting economic point that is often missed by big business when they play politics. What any device is worth, or house or car or horse or t-shirt, is more complex than disliking the price.

I can't disagree that Apple charges a massive premium for their stuff, but can't agree that they are overpriced, nor that they are not wildly compatible.

(Yet another edit) interesting thought that just came to mind, that it's not Windows that's incompatible with Linux. Dominating the market has its privileges, yet Apple usually isn't given this consideration when it comes to the iPhone. They are still the ones not being compatible. Haters gonna hate.

[HelloRaptor]

@Thenomain

A "no you", HR? Really?

A condescending bit of sarcasm remarking on how no matter how often you declare you've had enough, literally nobody except you believes you won't keep going, counts as a 'no you'?

I feel like there's a bug in your code somewhere, and you should maybe report to the debugging station before you glitch out completely.

[Miss Demeanor]

As far as I know, you can still sync your iPhone to a PC... as far as I know. My issue with their incompatibility largely stems from iTunes. I can have iTunes on my Windows PC, spend hundreds of dollars on songs, shows, movies, and books... but I cannot have it anywhere BUT my computer without buying Apple's (to me) horrendously expensive iPhone or Macbook. The same cannot be said of Google's various media applications, or Amazon's, or Netflix or Kindle or... I think you see where I'm going with this. Those I can pull up at the drop of a hat from ANY media-capable device. And this was a thing LONG before they started dominating the market with iPhones and iPods.

Also... iPhones may not be so dominating these days after all, according to at least the CIRP.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@Miss-Demeanor said:

As far as I know, you can still sync your iPhone to a PC... as far as I know. My issue with their incompatibility largely stems from iTunes. I can have iTunes on my Windows PC, spend hundreds of dollars on songs, shows, movies, and books... but I cannot have it anywhere BUT my computer without buying Apple's (to me) horrendously expensive iPhone or Macbook.

I still love my IPod. Only Apple device I own.

[Arkandel]

@Three-Eyed-Crow I do own an ancient iPod 80 GB classic which works really well even now. The battery isn't as great as it used to, but it's practically not limiting me at all. I got no complaints (okay, maybe the interface bugs me a little bit).

[Miss Demeanor]

I don't even bother with mp3 devices anymore. My phone is my mp3 player.

[Coin]

@Arkandel said:

@Three-Eyed-Crow I do own an ancient iPod 80 GB classic which works really well even now. The battery isn't as great as it used to, but it's practically not limiting me at all. I got no complaints (okay, maybe the interface bugs me a little bit).

Until very early this year I had an iPod Nano that I bought in... like... 2007. It finally--finally--stopped working altogether.