ShadowRun 5E ... 2050

[Lithium]

@Misadventure said:

I for one look for a game, not a game following a preset timeline of setting and events. Given that I doubt a game will last two or three IC decades, concern about where the setting was heading seems odd.

However, I am not a player who plays a certain property because it is that property.

I'm not going to follow set events, but I am all for removing hassles for myself. I don't want it to even be a /thing/ people expect. It's sort of like setting a game in the Matrix but before Neo. It could be done, it might even be able to be done well within the limits of that setting, but people would expect Neo to come along and everything would change and nobody's actions would really matter, because Neo.

I plan to run at an accelerated time ratio so it's entirely possible that the game could span a length of IC time and if I set it in Chicago (For example) Everyone would wonder when I would bring the Bugs.

So I am basically just making things easy on myself and on plot runners/ST's/GM's/Whatever by not tying the game setting to a pre-established location with it's story already told and we can tell all our own stories and take the world where we want it to go.

I hope that makes sense.

[Arkandel]

@Lithium said:

It's sort of like setting a game in the Matrix but before Neo. It could be done, it might even be able to be done well within the limits of that setting, but people would expect Neo to come along and everything would change and nobody's actions would really matter, because Neo.

Yeah, that's a terrible idea. We had a similar issue in our Wheel of Time game years ago where characters could be powerful and everything but they weren't book characters. And since those book characters held all the important decision-making positions, were by definition the most personally powerful people (no channeler could ever rival Rand no matter what) but also had the tendency of doing things themselves people just did their thing by delegating themselves to being support cast.

Which sucks. PCs should never be support.

[Tempest]

As an outsider, I vote for San Fran, just for the east meets west thing!

[FiranSurvivor]

@Tempest said:

As an outsider, I vote for San Fran, just for the east meets west thing!

San Fran could be good. Also provides a ton of political intrigue depending on the status of the various Japancorps. (Do they control San Fran or have they lost control?)

[Lithium]

Japan has never lost control of San Francisco to my knowledge. Even when Japan technically didn't, it's been controlled by Mitsuhama and the other Japancorps.

EDIT: Apparently Japan lost control of San Francisco in 2061, but Saito, the military leader defected from Japan and created his own state backed by the Yakuza and various Japanese Corps. Eventually he was kicked out but... San Francisco is a hellish place, don't have your papers? Get shot on the spot. Be a metahuman in San Francisco? Get shot. So on and so forth.

I would guess that in a more modern setting after Ares and Cal Free managed to kick Saito out it might be a better city so... If San Francisco gets picked it's going to most likely be a split grid of San Francisco and Oakland/Berkely/Tri-County Area so as to all for a variety of locations other than the overarching: If you're not japanese human, you're fucked.

[Jennkryst]

Technomancers can be a thing, just slowly introduced. Otaku were things in older editions, and I know some of them weren't of the AI/Deus variety.

As for qualities... some can go, others should stay. If you have a lifepath that gives you a Criminal SIN, it should probably remain. Though, I suppose, there could also be a lifepath thing to get that deleted somehow. Should really re-familiarize myself with 5E.

[Lithium]

@Jennkryst said:

Technomancers can be a thing, just slowly introduced. Otaku were things in older editions, and I know some of them weren't of the AI/Deus variety.

As for qualities... some can go, others should stay. If you have a lifepath that gives you a Criminal SIN, it should probably remain. Though, I suppose, there could also be a lifepath thing to get that deleted somehow. Should really re-familiarize myself with 5E.

Otaku were a thing in third edition. There's no Otaku just yet, and might not ever be. I personally like Decker's as the matrix cowboys and I feel technomancers dillute things and don't mesh well, what with their inability to do /anything/ really well, other than summon sprites to do the heavy lifting generally.

I'm not saying Technomancers can't be good, just that they're an aspect of the later settings I do not care for and one of the reasons why I am going back to 2050.

[ThatGuyThere]

Only minorly on topic but that life path thing sounds very ineresting . I will have ot pick up Run Faster to check it out.
I have hte Base 5th ed book but nothing else since our table top group will be sticking with 4th ed tto finish the campaign and almost never runs the same game two compaigns in a row.

[Lithium]

Yep I like the lifepath system but I am modifying it a bit. The published Life paths don't take into account the wide variety of countries in ShadowRun, or even all the countries in North America like Aztlan, Cal Free State, Quebec, etc!

So I am ditching the nationality phase under the assumption that people are people, people define themselves by where they are from but it shouldn't have as large an impact as it does. So I am skipping that phase of picking a nationality and instead just having people pick a native language, set their nationality, and then refund them those points so that they have more flexibility at the final stage in where they want their character to be.

The alternative, is to try and create a lifepath for every country. While possible, it is insanely time consuming to do so and honestly, just isn't worth the time.

EDIT: So it'll be more along the lines of: Pick your childhood upbringing, pick your teen years, pick your education (if any), jobs performed (If any). So in the end it's possible to just pick your childhood, pick your teen years, and then go straight to spending remaining points at the point buy phase.

I am intending the lifepaths to be a guide, rather than a straight jacket, to help people find and define their character. Or for those that choose, they can go straight to point buy, or, can pick an already created archetype that will be applied to them and then they are ready for play after filling out the background questions.

[FiranSurvivor]

Having played more Shadowrun: Hong Kong, I need a SR MUSH in my life. MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Also if you need any help with grunt work (descriptions and stuff) let me know and I can pitch in some time.

[tragedyjones]

Shadowrun needs to be a thing again. There should be a place where I want to simply just do casual Bar RP.

[FiranSurvivor]

@tragedyjones said:

Shadowrun needs to be a thing again. There should be a place where I want to simply just do casual Bar RP.

Except in any other game casual Bar RP is a bunch of fucks ordering fried zucchini and nursing burbon.

In Shadowrun, Bar RP is the precursor to fucking a global megacorp out of a few million nuyen or biker gangs rallying for a battle with the Triads while a ripperdoc sits in the corner and counts future profits.

[tragedyjones]

@FiranSurvivor

I am totally down with that, but also just being able to really sink my teeth into the setting of Shadowrun appeals to me.

[NotaNumber]

I love the setting of Shadowrun ... but, my experiences with Denver over the years make me question whether it is a great thing to try and use the system online.

Then again, if this gets off the ground, I'll probably try anyway because fuck it, Shadowrun.

[Templari]

@FiranSurvivor said:

@tragedyjones said:

Shadowrun needs to be a thing again. There should be a place where I want to simply just do casual Bar RP.

Except in any other game casual Bar RP is a bunch of fucks ordering fried zucchini and nursing burbon.

In Shadowrun, Bar RP is the precursor to fucking a global megacorp out of a few million nuyen or biker gangs rallying for a battle with the Triads while a ripperdoc sits in the corner and counts future profits.

I won't -always- sit in the corner while calculating your doo- I mean your chances of surviva- Success! I meant Success. I'm just here to support you.

[Jennkryst]

@NotaNumber said:

I love the setting of Shadowrun ... but, my experiences with Denver over the years make me question whether it is a great thing to try and use the system online.

Then again, if this gets off the ground, I'll probably try anyway because fuck it, Shadowrun.

Many of the issues with Denver stem from it being SR3 (bucketloads of karma pool), and as such, the numerous house rules floating around. Some of it also had to do with the revolving door of staffers changing things, and Alpha just wanting to play/refusal to make the hard call on staff stuff. Examples include... the attempted matrix re-write, because they were just so... unintuitive, and then the one decker player got brought on staff to consult (despite numerous complaints), and decreed 'MATRIX IS FINE AS IS, GO ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS, NO FIXES NEEDED EVER' Add onto it the current Chief of Staff constantly griping about staff decisions publically despite the fact that staff fired one of the best PR people on there ever for doing the same thing.

tl;dr, Denver's issues are more about it being Denver, and less about it being Shadowrun.

[Lithium]

@Jennkryst said:

@NotaNumber said:

I love the setting of Shadowrun ... but, my experiences with Denver over the years make me question whether it is a great thing to try and use the system online.

Then again, if this gets off the ground, I'll probably try anyway because fuck it, Shadowrun.

Many of the issues with Denver stem from it being SR3 (bucketloads of karma pool), and as such, the numerous house rules floating around. Some of it also had to do with the revolving door of staffers changing things, and Alpha just wanting to play/refusal to make the hard call on staff stuff. Examples include... the attempted matrix re-write, because they were just so... unintuitive, and then the one decker player got brought on staff to consult (despite numerous complaints), and decreed 'MATRIX IS FINE AS IS, GO ABOUT YOUR BUSINESS, NO FIXES NEEDED EVER' Add onto it the current Chief of Staff constantly griping about staff decisions publically despite the fact that staff fired one of the best PR people on there ever for doing the same thing.

tl;dr, Denver's issues are more about it being Denver, and less about it being Shadowrun.

^^^^^

I played on Denver when it first opened and it was decent, then the karma bloat happened and /that/ is one of the precursors that killed the game in any meaningful way. That was a problem with SR3 and there was the endless House Rules that followed. Once there were people with more karma pool than cyberzombies firearms pool (and likely long before then) there was serious cascade failures going on with trying to make things work with that system.

Personally I am a fan of letting people make their own stories, make their own content as it were, so I am less concerned with PvP than others might be. I personally believe that nobody should feel /safe/ in ShadowRun, at any given time, because that is at odds with the setting and Denver had very draconian rules on player vs player conflict, at least when I was there (Which was admittedly forever ago).

One of the reasons I am converting 5th edition down to 2050 is because it is a lot more balanced than 3rd edition and the system is balanced enough that even a soak monster can still be taken out with just a little bit of planning so if someone steps out of line to much then they will probably get dealt with. It's also why I am making CharGen be mostly automated, to reduce the barrier to entry and perhaps make it non-existant.

For Example: If someone goes into CharGen and takes the Ganger archetype for their race, and answers the background questions they'll get approved very very quickly (maybe even with zero delay) because I want Gangs to form up. I want PC's to lead street gangs. I want the Urban Jungle to be a scary beast that will chew up runners and spit them out if they don't follow the rules or be careful and take pains to protect themselves.

I have a lot of plans and systems going into place to help promote RP though and plots. There will be runs being offered by Johnsons played by staff, and then there will be a bank of runs for players to run for their fellows should they choose that will be closely tied in to the overarching story of the game to create an interactive web of plot threads that may not seem interconnected on the surface.

Another idea I am tossing around is dedicated Fixer's for established Teams. Get a group of friends together who can all be on at the same time and work as a team and there's a good chance of weekly or bi-weekly runs for your team through your fixer to help push the story forwards and to promote the 'team' dynamic as there's only so many jobs a random collection of people put together can work on.

That is what I will primarily need staff for, someone for Deckers, someone for Gangers, someone for the Triads/Yakuza/Mafia etc.

Admittedly I have no idea how big the player base will be, so I don't know exactly how many staffers I will need but I do know this: One and done. I have zero tolerance for staff cheating.

[ThatGuyThere]

@NotaNumber
Denver uses 3rd edition rules, whcih were the most fiddily of the editions, I like it in someways but both 4th and 5th would be better online both of whcihbioil down WoD with d6es instead.
Even the exact same success chance on each die for normal rolls. With 10 again WoD dice equal one third of a success, and SR 4th and 5th dice are a sucess on 5 and 6 only so it would not me much harder to use then WoD online I wouldn't think.

[Arkandel]

One question I had about Shadowrun...

Back in the day it was an issue for table-top that while Deckers went on to do their own thing, the rest of the party couldn't be there (and vice versa of course).

Has that been changed in any way in later editions? It used to be an issue since it kinda wrecked pace for the chronicle since the ST had to split his attention to things characters did which were exclusive to them.

[ThatGuyThere]

Some what, with wireless matrix they are less isolated. and with Ar being a thing there are ways to tag along with them a little easier though the still somewhat form their own minigame at times.
I have found from the table top I am in, on actual runs it is not so bad but when the decker pc wants to to the pre run prep the rest of us usually have time for a break, go get food, eat food, talk about tv and watch you tube video for about 30-60 minutes. Not on a much a lot of that could be handled with +jobs before doing the run scene and even in table top it tends to come up in roughly once every three sessions or so.