Requiem for Kingsmouth closing
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It was nice playing somewhere where both social skills and social ability mattered. The in-character rumor system, when people kept it in-character, was very nice. I also liked the beatsheet/beats system, which made players responsible for their own advancement, though I admit (from the staff side, as I got to see in recent weeks) that also took an incredible number of admin hours to process.
The Prince was not idle, nor was he in any way responsible for the game closing.
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Far be it for me to propose that on another game, though, right? Because who the fuck listens to me, unless it's several years down the road?
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You're too mean to let not being listened to get in the way of proposing things.
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Although I agree if brute force is the determinant factor in Vampire it's being played wrong, in my experience striking a good balance between subtlety, partisanship, physical prowess and general backstabbing right comes from chemistry between all major participants rather than the system being employed. I.e. you can implement the exact same ruleset in two different games and get completely different results based on the administration (how they handle different personalities, what they're prepared to tolerate/encourage, etc), players (are you getting flagship proactive leaders playing different factions, what's the general activity level between factions, etc) and of course if Storytelling creates the right momentum when the game needs it.
Many of those things are largely out of staff's hands and are a bitch to plan for.
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@Ganymede said:
"IN YO FACE"
I want an audio recording of Gany snapping, "IN YO FACE" to be my new text notification sound.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos -
@icanbeyourmuse said:
It makes me think rather well of the head staffer, surprisingly. She chose to close down a game some people obviously love because she didn't want to let her visions and what people seem to be enjoying go to pot. It does make the game go off on a good note over, say (as the only ones that was busy and active, that I know) The Reach and Firan's going down. (Not that TR is fully down or anything). Good for head staff for caring enough to keep his or her vision for the current Kingsmouth what she wanted it to be and what people seemed to enjoy.
Same. Whatever one thinks of the various policies from RfK posted here, it seems like the game was what the headwiz wanted it to be, and it's closing on its own terms with some allowance for the players to tie up their stories. Probably the best way to end things, to my mind, even if people hate endings.
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So the question is, what fucked up stuff was staff/the playerbase doing that made Shav go 'fuck ya'll, game is over'? She seemed to explicitly point towards being tired of player/other staff demands.
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@Tempest said:
So the question is, what fucked up stuff was staff/the playerbase doing that made Shav go 'fuck ya'll, game is over'? She seemed to explicitly point towards being tired of player/other staff demands.
The way I read it, she ran out of resources and couldn't run the game the way she felt it should be run without them. And being in that situation isn't shocking if staff was discouraged/kept from playing in their own game as someone mentioned (no idea if it's true or not) as that's pretty draconic. Other interpersonal issues and a general lack of competent people willing to staff probably played into it too either way.
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RfK staff was allowed to play, but forced to be 'civilian' characters, meaning they couldn't actively engage in politicking, which seems pretty reasonable.
"I've made a variety of compromises from what I'm comfortable with in order to entice volunteers on to staff. Tonight I reached a breaking point: a compromise I simply will not and cannot make, which unfortunately means that we won't have the manpower to run the game on a day-to-day basis. "
Is what she said, apparently. Makes me wonder.
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Games close. Those people who liked the way it was run but had a dissenting opinion should get together and make a new one. Not a gold of your own, not something to show those people how it's really done, just a game to play.
I would like to see the breakdown of how the beat-sheet system worked, mostly because the way we're doing it on Eldritch is a little hard to control. This isn't to say I want to switch, because I have no idea how it works, but I am asking to see what other people have done because it interests me.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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I believe there may have been some staff PCs that were starting to push the line set for actively engaging in politicking.
But also, as others have mentioned, it's hard to transition from intensive things that are difficult but ok to do on a small game/when one has a certain amount of time and expanding that out.
I know that I'd started to see some things that made me uncomfortable, I wish that this wasn't the solution, but I respect it a great deal
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It's not that staff was discouraged from playing in their own game; it's that staff was discouraged from playing a power game:
- 4.2. Storytellers may have a single PC, who are subject to all of the disadvantages of Political play and eligible for none of the advantages. They may not act as a judge in any circumstance in which there is a conflict of interest (CoI). If unsure, the storyteller will divulge the possible CoI and ask all participants in the scene whether there are any objections. If anyone objects a different judge will be found.
Positions of Power, Staff PC's:
Can hold secondary positions such as Primogen, Keeper of Elysium etc.
Can't hold primary positions such as Prince, Prisci, Harpy or Sheriff.
Special: If another PC tries to sieze a position held by a Staff PC, the normal PC will be inevitably succesful.
Territory, Staff PC's:
Can help others take territory and solve crises on their behalf.
Can't hold territory of their own.
Plot, Staff PCs:
Can be asked to help solve crises and other mysteries.
Can't help with plots/crises they are responsible for.
Consent, Staff PC's:
Can be assumed to know the consequences of their actions without warning.
Can fight you for mortal influence.
Can't avoid consequences unless the consequence would change their template or force them to perform an illegal action (For instance you can't dominate a Staff PC and ask them to solve their own plot).
Can't start a potentially lethal conflict by their own initiative.
That doesn't seem to me to be a terribly draconian policy. And I was light-build/wiki staff for the last month and a half or so, and did my best to keep atop jobs, for what that's worth. (And thanks to those other players who helped with the wiki!)
My character was Support, might have gone Political had OSS 3.0 come to fruition, but that never came to pass. Since I didn't see any IC jobs -- just BUILD, WIKI, and TERRA (crisis) buckets, the staff thing wasn't an issue for Xeth's character or mine.
- 4.2. Storytellers may have a single PC, who are subject to all of the disadvantages of Political play and eligible for none of the advantages. They may not act as a judge in any circumstance in which there is a conflict of interest (CoI). If unsure, the storyteller will divulge the possible CoI and ask all participants in the scene whether there are any objections. If anyone objects a different judge will be found.
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@Thenomain said:
I want an audio recording of Gany snapping, "IN YO FACE" to be my new text notification sound.
I'll deliver one to you the next time I swing out your way.
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@Coin said:
I would like to see the breakdown of how the beat-sheet system worked, mostly because the way we're doing it on Eldritch is a little hard to control. This isn't to say I want to switch, because I have no idea how it works, but I am asking to see what other people have done because it interests me.
Essentially, you log in reasons for getting a beat. There are categories of reasons: a scene with another PC; a thematic scene; running an event; etc. You also got beats for "votes" from others. All such beats were capped off; for instance, you could only get 7 bears from "votes" every cycle. Each cycle lasted a week.
Every +beatsheet was submitted for review weekly. And it was reviewed personally by Shav, and then Myno after. It was labor-intensive.
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@Coin said:
I would like to see the breakdown of how the beat-sheet system worked, mostly because the way we're doing it on Eldritch is a little hard to control. This isn't to say I want to switch, because I have no idea how it works, but I am asking to see what other people have done because it interests me.
Since I logged on to be a nosy bitch and read posts/channel backscroll...
(Where's the code button?)
================================ +HELP +BEAT =================================
Players are able to record beats for scenes using the +beat and +squee commands. Valid options for +beat are:Roleplay in a scene with someone; (max 7/week)
+beat scene=<description>Roleplay in a scene specifically oriented to the theme or stereotype of a group you belong to; (max 3/week)
+beat theme=<description>Organize or host an event; (max 1/week)
+beat event=<description>Fulfill an aspiration, or make progress toward one; (max 3/week)
+beat aspiration=<description>Encounter a breaking point (whether or not you pass the roll), or roll a Dramatic Failure with negative roleplaying consequences. You may choose to downgrade a normal Failure to a Dramatic Failure for this purpose, but may only ever get a Beat if the dramatic failure has serious roleplaying consequences; (max 7/week)
+beat breaking point=<description>Fall into involuntary frenzy or take damage in your last three health boxes; (max 3/week)
+beat frenzy=<description>Resolve a negative Condition that's been placed on you. Some Conditions also award Beats situationally, so make certain to check yours! (max 3/week)
+beat condition=<description>Become another point bloodbound; (self-limiting)
+beat bond=<description>Add rumors to someone else's wiki; (max 3/week)
+beat rumor=<copy of rumor>Make someone else squee with your epic, awesome roleplay, such that they add a note to their Beat Sheet that you deserve an extra reward; (max 7/week)
+squee <character>=<the awesome thing they did>Recruit a new player. (Unlimited, beats awarded the first time they go in-game and one month later, if still active.)
+beat recruitment=<who you recruited>Within a few weeks this should become a habit in your roleplaying, and won't seem at all invasive. Beat Sheets will audited and transformed into beats for you to spend once a week, currently on Mondays.
SEE ALSO: +help +beatsheet, +help +squee, +help costs
============================================================ +HELP +BEAT =====
============================== +HELP +BEATSHEET ==============================
Available Commands:
+beatsheet: Shows you your in-progress beat sheet for this week
+beatsheet/lw: Shows you last weeks' beat sheet.
+beatsheet/history: Historical tracking of granted beats.SEE ALSO: +help +beat, +help +squee
======================================================= +HELP +BEATSHEET =====
======================= Weekly Beat Sheet for Miranda ========================================================== Summary ===================================
Type Beats (Cap)Weekly Estimate: 0
================================= All Beats ==================================
======================= Weekly Beat Sheet for Miranda ========================
======================= Beat Sheet History for Miranda =======================2015-05-19 02:19:43 11 beats granted
Scene: 3 Theme: 2 Aspiration: 2 Squee: 2 Staff: 22015-05-25 08:13:29 3 beats granted
Scene: 1 Theme: 1 Squee: 1In the summary, it'd tally up what you'd submitted for the week and keep track, label/color by 'type' of beat. No idea what was going on with all the code, of course, but yeah, that's the basic idea.
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You could also fill in supplemental informative beatsheets about your character, to flesh them out and earn additional XP, both while in chargen or at any time after:
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Definitely prefer auto-xp, personally. But different strokes for different folks.
P.S. For the power hungry people, Reno's starting XP is now 35 (+5 w/background).
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@Ganymede said:
@Coin said:
I would like to see the breakdown of how the beat-sheet system worked, mostly because the way we're doing it on Eldritch is a little hard to control. This isn't to say I want to switch, because I have no idea how it works, but I am asking to see what other people have done because it interests me.
Essentially, you log in reasons for getting a beat. There are categories of reasons: a scene with another PC; a thematic scene; running an event; etc. You also got beats for "votes" from others. All such beats were capped off; for instance, you could only get 7 bears from "votes" every cycle. Each cycle lasted a week.
Every +beatsheet was submitted for review weekly. And it was reviewed personally by Shav, and then Myno after. It was labor-intensive.
The coded +beat system wasn't that labor intensive. Myn's first week was harsh as she didn't know all the commands but used properly it represented an hour or so of work per week. I think it's the best XP system I've experienced so far as it encouraged participation.
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The +beatsheet that was weekly had a learning curve for folks used to passive XP (hello!!).
But once I got in the groove I really liked that better than just +vote or passive. And the wiki beatsheets (more detailed info/background/personality stuff) that you could fill in at any time pre or post-approval were nice too. But yes, I do think it is labor intensive (as compared to auto) and that can be an issue when there's a players to staff-hours imbalance. -
Indeed! I really liked it. It was probably my second favorite XP system ever (with my first being Aether's way back in the day).
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@kls said:
It's not that staff was discouraged from playing in their own game; it's that staff was discouraged from playing a power game:
- 4.2. Storytellers may have a single PC, who are subject to all of the disadvantages of Political play and eligible for none of the advantages. They may not act as a judge in any circumstance in which there is a conflict of interest (CoI). If unsure, the storyteller will divulge the possible CoI and ask all participants in the scene whether there are any objections. If anyone objects a different judge will be found.
I assume "Storytellers" in this case only refers to staff, otherwise it was even more draconic than I thought. But even as written that's pretty drastic; while taking yourself out of CoI situations when it comes to doing work as staff is perfectly reasonable, the policy above (well, the entire policy, I only quoted part of it) seems too drastic.
It's already hard enough to get good people without expecting those good people to be able and participate in the game fully. No one wants staff alts to be given unfair advantages but I see no compelling argument against being handed out unfair disadvantages - and in fact one good reason not to; they won't want to do the job a MU* requires someone to be doing. As (presumably) was the case here where the game eventually ran out of steam.
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What I found with beat processing (hi, Myn here) was that if I just flat processed beat sheets without more than a quick check to make sure people weren't submitting illegitimate or duplicated beats, I bet I could have spent just an hour doing it. But it was also important (and I think appreciated by the players) to be sure that people received beats that they had earned but hadn't submitted for. This meant manually adding forgotten scene beats, event beats, every sort of beat, plus double-checking that rumor beats were claimed against rumors posted to the wiki, etc.
My first week, when I didn't have the commands, it took me over five hours.
After that, it was around two to three, plus time spent doing whatever else was needed and that doesn't count reading the beatsheets submitted via email, counting up the beats earned through answers there and manually awarding them on game. The system was time-intensive, any way you look at it.
But that said, I only did it for a few weeks and might have become a lot faster with more practice at catching what needed to be manually added.
