NOLA 2: Back in the Vieux

[TiredEwok]

I am still learning what is, or isn't, seen as offensive or racist. So sometimes I read something and I personally don't see what is wrong with that words are used. So when I ask this, please understand that it is me asking so I can learn and not my trying to be argumentative or contrary. What about the use of the word 'Nubian' makes people feel offended?

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[TiredEwok]

Thank you for explaining that to me. I appreciate it very much.

[Ganymede]

@RDC said in NOLA 2: Back in the Vieux:

The Racial Slur Database specifically calls "Nubian Princess" out as a racial slur, for example, because in the wake of the movie Friday, white folks just...uh. Took that shit and ran with it in the wrong direction.

I first became acquainted with it from Go.

[SilentHills]

@Ganymede Regardless of that particular racial faux pas, damn that was a good 90s film.

[Ganymede]

@SilentHills said in NOLA 2: Back in the Vieux:

Regardless of that particular racial faux pas, damn that was a good 90s film.

As a Canadian, I went to sleep dreaming of Sarah Polley.

[GreenFlashlight]

@RDC said in NOLA 2: Back in the Vieux:

I'll let y'all decide for yourselves if I was overreacting.

Oh, I didn't mean you were overreacting. I just meant fuckin hell, you know? There was so much yikes in those few words I couldn't even encapsulate it in words.

[Ominous]

I know of Nubia because the black gladiator that helps Maximus in 2000's Gladiator was Nubian, and I thought "Nubia is a great frickin' name for a place."

[mietze]

BTW, don't use Negro/Negroid in your description/skin tone label either. It was one of the final straws for me on another game, even though he was made to remove it, and frankly I will never look at that player the same way again. And no, it was not a historical era game. Maybe I'm just noticing it more but I see more and more boundary pushing stuff like that now than in the past. It really makes me feel sad, and mad.

I am really glad to see people not accepting the nonsense but I guess we will always have folks who want to see how teeheeUnPC they're allowed to be.

[Ganymede]

@mietze said in NOLA 2: Back in the Vieux:

I am really glad to see people not accepting the nonsense but I guess we will always have folks who want to see how teeheeUnPC they're allowed to be.

First, Coulter.

Then, Shapiro.

Now, this guy:

[Waller]

I saw Tony's wikipage.

First, I was uncomfortable.
Second, I thought that the player might not be a Black person.

And now, I'm trying to figure out how they added "Neanderthal" to the description when Neanderthal genes are mostly found in people of Caucasian genotypes.

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[Saulot]

I said it privately to a few folks, but since that cat's out of the bag let's just be real. It's fetish bait, and it's old hat at that. Seeing that it might be someone bringing over a concept from Shang et al explains things. It explains a whole hell of a lot. I've been told by two people that he meant no harm in it, and that he would have changed things if asked in a way they prefer (more oldies but goodies). I wanna give people the benefit of the doubt, but that's one of hell of a coincidence to fall into all of that all at once. It ain't impossible, but I'm betting on improbable.

Anyway, the Nubia bit depends on who you ask and their age. Short of young cats it's a thing about beauty or empowerment a lot f the time. Eg, my Nubian queen/king. Also in the name of one of my favorite acts outta NYC with Brand Nubian. Note, the beauty and empowerment thing can be taken to ridiculously stupid levels with NoI, 5%ers, and hoteps. I'm well aware that I don't speak for all black folks, but Nubian ain't much of a word of contention.

[Sunny]

Given the givens, I'm sure it's the most recent weird troll. This person is hell bent on getting a rise out of the community for whatever reason (probably REALLY bored during quarantine and hasn't discovered Twitter yet), and the more attention we pay to him the more he's going to do it.

Take his weapons away with the realization that nothing he says is sincere or a genuinely held belief, and he is specifically saying things like "I would have changed if you'd talked nice to me" as part of the spiel. Don't give him your regard, your guilt, or your consideration. He is weaponizing your compassion to make an impact. Stop it.

ETA: This talks about this sort of pattern of behavior:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll

[RubyRhod]

Tony was an Ogre Changeling who was a giant fanged metal firebreathing bull. His description in Fae form was basically that (I don't have a copy of it, but likely someone here does). I paged him about it a while back, because it was so over the top - he's REALLY that big? I'd assumed any Changeling desc'd like that was Wyrd 8 or something and was trying to work out how to respond.

I found his human desc dodgy AF but I had no idea if he was POC or not since I've previously run into POC pcs playing similar descs for reasons I don't know about - I could speculate, but eh.

If he was MAGA, it was well hidden in any scenes I was in (no weirdness about openly queer characters, including ones that hit on him, non-Republicans, etc). I don't know what goes on when I'm not around, but in scenes I was in, he was friendly and open to being the butt of jokes. His human description was dodgy, but when paired with his Bull changeling the 'beef' comments didn't come out of nowhere.

These are the relevant posts if anyone cares:

Bourbon posted:
Look. I don't actually want to have to make rules about this because it's super subjective and weird, but I would like to ask y'all a favor. Please, please, please, if you're a white person, and you're playing a POC, and you can't describe them without mentioning their race about 20 times in the desk, using racial caricatures, throwing explicit racist dogwhistles in, comparing POC skin to food, et cetera, please just stop playing POC. Yes we all want MU* grids be less white and it's fine to play characters who aren't you IRL. I have played black folks, middle eastern folks, mixed-race folks of several types, Chinese folks - and 99% of the people who do this are fine. It's fine.

If you're not a POC and you're playing a POC, maybe take a look at your desc and just think, "does this sound like a description HP Lovecraft would write", and if it does, maybe change some things up. Please don't make me have to start actually reading your descriptions before we approve you for RP so I don't release a staff-approved piece of racist writing onto the grid, I much prefer 'make sure a desc is set and don't actually read any of it' if we're being honest.

Tony comments on Changeling
<Changeling> Tony says, “... Whoever had a problem with my character, it would have been super cool if you'd spoken to me about it rather than running and crying to staff. I made a joke in my short-desc referencing the fact that cattle are a food product, meat. It was meant only to be a fun take on being a giant slab of a man. That's it. So whoever decided to rant and complain without talking to me. Fuck off.”
<Changeling> Moon Hare, Ezra says, “I'll flatly say I wasn't one of the ones that talk to staff, but, man, it wasn't just that.”
<Changeling> Tony says, “Everyone is entitled to their opinion.”
You have left channel Changeling.
<Changeling> Tony has left this channel.

Tony comments in OOC:
Tony has connected.
Seven has partially disconnected.
Stasya says, "Tony, how do you feel about breakfast?"
Ezra has left.
Angelique says, "Breakfast is good. Depending on what."
Ragyo yawns
Tony is afraid to think about food at all, cuz, it's a bad descriptor!
Helle snickers
Ink says, "Speaking of short desc's Tony, I think it has a typo and is /Use/ your imagination."
Tony shrugs.
Tony doesn't really care at this point.

After Tony disconnected, Bourbon noted that the player who was complaining was Bourbon. Someone paged all the comments, but they are nothing that is not in the public files on +bboard 1.

Bourbon’s @mail:
Hi, Tony. We need to have a chat.

I tried to not call you out directly because in the past you've been...well, I'm not going to mince words. You've violated Rule #1 (don't be an asshole) several times and I didn't want to deal with a confrontation because I just wasn't in the mood.

You violated Rule #1 again. Against players both on public channels and in the OOC room. We're going to have to deal with that, and whether you want to continue playing on this game, and how you're going to have to behave to do so.

But more specifically, your desc and short-desc are offensively racist and you're gonna need to change them. Tony is unapproved. He will not be re-approved until you've written a desc that does not include every goddamn racist stereotype and dehumanizing trope. I highly suggest you take some time to educate yourself on these, and on common racist dogwhistles, if you're not already.

If you're incapable of maturely handling criticism or changing, then to be blunt, we will ask you to leave.

If I get a SINGLE other report of you harassing players, via page or on channel? You will be asked to leave.

If you're an asshole in this interaction? You will be asked to leave.

I have little patience for this kind of behavior and trying to treat you nicely made it worse. Your desc and short-desc are going to be cleared. Write new ones.

Tony’s @mail:
‘There's really no point. You came after me like I was the bad guy without ever discussing anything with me. You vilified me on public bboards, and then painted me as the confrontational person. You could have talked to me like a rational person, but you chose not to. I AM A POC. I don't appreciate being called racist in public. I don't think you should be weaponizing a persons ethnicity without knowing anything about the person. So, there's really no real point is there. You have decided to paint me in whatever light you have. Accused me of violating rules multiple times. And I didn't violate any rules in the OOC room, so that's just blatantly false. I have a feeling you don't really care about that though given how aggressively you've come at me. Communication is key, you have never tried to communicate with me, good luck.’

Bourbon: The player of Tony, Trev, Justice, and Vali blew up today on public channels, in the OOC room, and sent offensive pages to players privately. When confronted, he decided to blow up at me. He decided to leave NOLA and we've agreed with him that this was the most appropriate course of action, and removed his option to return.

I don't have any of the private pages, (including any of the pages between Bourbon and Tony). I have no idea how he behaved. I had the impression he was friendly. People paged me asking me what the blowups were, because players did not recognise those reactions as blowups. So here, as far as I know, they are. I was only sent the Changeling ones, and the OOC room stuff, not any on any other groups. For all I know there's an OOC log out there with an actual blow up.

When I did log on, I was asked by multiple characters (three, on this) if I had reported harassment - specifically with the 'We aren't angry at whoever did, but did anyone other than Bourbon report harassment?' bent. And a few more going 'what the heck, what was the OOC room fight? What was the Cha fight?'

If I could pick out anything from his rp, it would be that he loved playing huge capable black dude. The food stuff in his desc bothered me less (we have soooo many caramel/mocha characters?) than the association of danger=big black guy which felt dodge, but...I've been wrong before with POC playing POC, like I said..

[Tinuviel]

I think in cases where a term or phrase is acceptable for one group to use but not for another, that term or phrase should be avoided - especially in places where one cannot opt out of being exposed to it, like in character descriptions. RP is another matter.

For instance, I call myself a fag/faggot quite frequently. But I would be rightly lambasted for describing a character of mine as a 'twinky little faggot'. There's no real way of proving those using the term for reclamation purposes, and those using the term to cause harm or get a rise out of the audience.

[L. B. Heuschkel]

@Sunny For what it's worth, he started this crap back in January, before COVID quarantine was a thing anywhere. He's just a racist troll who gets off on games of gotcha.

[Ganymede]

@RubyRhod

Tony's @mail is a classic case of gaslighting.

Bourbon's decision to remove him or ask him to leave because they didn't want to deal with him is perfectly reasonable.

[Tinuviel]

@Ganymede said in NOLA 2: Back in the Vieux:

Bourbon's decision to remove him or ask him to leave because they didn't want to deal with him is perfectly reasonable.

This is perfectly reasonable even without all that preamble. Rules breaking or not, if you don't want to deal with someone you don't have to let them sleep on your couch.

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