Is this hobby on it's last legs?

[Ganymede]

@Sunny said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

Like clockwork. It's September, of course we're having this conversation again. It literally happens every single September on this board and all previous mush tabloids.

[L. B. Heuschkel]

@Sunny Lordy, how tedious. I'm glad to be new enough to this hobby to not have seen enough to set my clock by it. Just going to agree that no, the hobby is definitely not dying.

[Lotherio]

@bear_necessities said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

at this time, the game needs to be casual friendly.

This isn't a 2020 issue at all. People have had trouble getting into games long before this year because they are not casual friendly. It's not going to go away once 2020 stops sucking. Like, being casual friendly is something most games should strive for?

This, for as much as folks enjoy involved heavy plot, action point spends, reports and engaging with the meta of a place, there are folks who will always enjoy casual RP too. No tentpole games may match it so much, but these places are out there too.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

It's also usually 'there's nothing out there that's exactly right for ME therefore the hobby is dying.'

And yeah it's pretty tedious and a cycle of eternal return. There are games! I think there's a pretty OK spread depending on genre and interest right now, really, at least better than other years I can remember.

[faraday]

It's tough to be casual-friendly (not having Stuff happen at such a breakneck pace that the casuals can't keep up) while at the same time providing enough Stuff to entertain the folks who are super-engaged and online every other night. Maybe impossible.

This is not a new or unique problem; video game companies face the same basic issue with casuals and die-hards.

It just gets a bit more complicated on MUs for a couple reasons. First, there's a critical mass of People Online required to sustain a game. Without access to on-demand RP, folks will wander off to do other things and the game quickly crumples. Also, MUs are largely relationship driven. (not just romance) It's hard when your character's friends are doing things daily and you can only touch base with them once every week or two.

[Lotherio]

@faraday said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

It's tough to be casual-friendly (not having Stuff happen at such a breakneck pace that the casuals can't keep up) while at the same time providing enough Stuff to entertain the folks who are super-engaged and online every other night. Maybe impossible.

This. The casual ones that last have accepted small number of folks who adhere to casual. Regulars and daily players find others. There are a small handful of casual and casual paced games. One we started up in 2016 that is casual by the stuff not happening at break neck speed is still going with routine RP.

I think in the casual arena, its leaning along the GOMO concept, play groups that sort of match styles for pacing/speed/participation. Breaking into a group isn't too hard as the folks are friendly, but it takes time to feel out the various places for someone doing that.

Not saying that's what OP is looking for, just its out there (x-files theme music queued).

[tragedyjones]

Weirdly, online RPing seems to be at an online high in more traditional OTT style games. I am literally playing or GMing in 5 different campaigns right now.

[Arkandel]

@tragedyjones said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

Weirdly, online RPing seems to be at an online high in more traditional OTT style games. I am literally playing or GMing in 5 different campaigns right now.

I don't think though that's part of 'this hobby'. A virtual table-top with all the usual trappings of old-style RPGs (a fixed GM dictating play, a small group made up of regular PCs, sessions scheduled in advance) is a different experience than consistent multiplayer worlds populated by whoever happens to be on at the time.

Otherwise yeah for sure, I wouldn't be surprised if Covid and some TV shows like Stranger Things have propelled D&D and the like to peak popularity online.

[Enoch]

Yes, the hobby is very much on its last legs.

Original games are rare, and from the looks of the forum, the playerbase is too tired to RP (even pre 2020). Most are too busy to start new games, or dont have the juice/setup for it.

I firmly believe that if Arx bites the dust, the hobby is over, as I don't consider 10 player games as anything but a remnant.

I dont like to be a doomsayer, but it is what it is. This hobby is entirely player driven, and the players sound tired and done with it.

[SixRegrets]

I'm dumb enough and new enough to the community to suggest the opposite - the sheer popularity of Arx is why we don't have more games. It has a monopolistic effect, drawing people over there because That's Where Everyone Else Is.

If there was a site like MUD Connector for MUSHes, it'd help, but the current situation of those sites existing and having the next generation of MUSHes (Ares) not speak MSSP and etc in favor of the AresCentral directory is not helping anyone.

[GreenFlashlight]

@SixRegrets said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

I'm dumb enough and new enough to the community to suggest the opposite - the sheer popularity of Arx is why we don't have more games. It has a monopolistic effect, drawing people over there because That's Where Everyone Else Is.

I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense. Maybe all the small games are so small because they're for the niche groups who can't fit in with the mainstream. God knows every game I've looked at apping into lately, I've been approached for increasingly bizarre and gross sexual relationships by the players who seem to think nothing of asking if a stranger would please app things I don't even think I can publicly describe for fear of triggering survivors.

[faraday]

@SixRegrets said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

If there was a site like MUD Connector for MUSHes, it'd help, but the current situation of those sites existing and having the next generation of MUSHes (Ares) not speak MSSP and etc in favor of the AresCentral directory is not helping anyone.

I would have to disagree there. The Ares and Evennia game directories absolutely help players find games. The Ares one makes registering as easy as ticking a box in your game configuration, meaning that virtually all Ares games are listed. (As opposed to something like MUDConnector where you have to go out of your way to submit an ad.) Evennia also makes it pretty easy to activate a game registration AFAIK.

Sure it would be nice if there were a centralized MUSHConnector, but someone would have to build that first. And if they did, I would desperately hope that they'd do so with a modern web-based API geared towards the information actually relevant to MUSH games, and not the ancient, MUD-oriented, telnet-based MSSP.

MUSHes historically don't get a lot of traffic from MUDConnector, because it's mostly used by MUD players, but you can still list a game there. Even an Ares one. Most games just don't bother.

[L. B. Heuschkel]

You can absolutely list a MUSH on Mudconnector, and Discworld did. We never got a single guest connecting from that.

I fervently disagree that there are no new games, no energy, though. There's literally a game opening a month, if not more often. Sure, not all of them survive -- but most do seem to find their little niche of players who are quite happy. I guess it's about what constitutes 'success' -- if success means 200 connected players at all times, then yeah, this ship is sunk.

Both games I am on (Trelawney Cove, Gray Harbor) see daily activity among the core group of players, even at the present time where everything is one big stressed-out mess. You may not be able to just walk in and pick a random open scene to join -- but then, I never was, since I play from Europe, so to me, that's nothing out of the ordinary.

But then, I'm an easy costumer. Give me a handful of players who are happy to tell stories and I'm set.

[L. B. Heuschkel]

@GreenFlashlight That's... creepy as fuck. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people? Don't approach a guest, tell them what to app unless they bloody well ask for an IC in to your own char or something.

[Enoch]

@SixRegrets Back in the glory days of WoD there was always a goliath of the genre, and a myriad of smaller representants. Even when Requiem for Kingsmouth was around and it was "The Arx of Vampire Games", there were still many games popping up and people were talking all about them all over the forum.

You only need to go to the Hog Pit to see Arx is the only real representative of the hobby, at least for now

[Tinuviel]

@Enoch said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

You only need to go to the Hog Pit to see Arx is the only real representative of the hobby, at least for now

Only if you equate "what we're talking about" and "what exists."

[GreenFlashlight]

@L-B-Heuschkel said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

@GreenFlashlight That's... creepy as fuck. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people? Don't approach a guest, tell them what to app unless they bloody well ask for an IC in to your own char or something.

I think the logic goes something like, "I'm horny; I can't understand other people except as they can fulfill my desires; therefore let me tell you my genuinely disturbing and sometimes criminal fantasies."

[SixRegrets]

@GreenFlashlight said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

@L-B-Heuschkel said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

@GreenFlashlight That's... creepy as fuck. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people? Don't approach a guest, tell them what to app unless they bloody well ask for an IC in to your own char or something.

I think the logic goes something like, "I'm horny; I can't understand other people except as they can fulfill my desires; therefore let me tell you my genuinely disturbing and sometimes criminal fantasies."

Isn't that what Shangrila is for, though? Why does it need to escape that particular quarantine zone?

[Tinuviel]

@SixRegrets said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

@GreenFlashlight said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

@L-B-Heuschkel said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

@GreenFlashlight That's... creepy as fuck. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people? Don't approach a guest, tell them what to app unless they bloody well ask for an IC in to your own char or something.

I think the logic goes something like, "I'm horny; I can't understand other people except as they can fulfill my desires; therefore let me tell you my genuinely disturbing and sometimes criminal fantasies."

Isn't that what Shangrila is for, though? Why does it need to escape that particular quarantine zone?

People actually get banned from Shangrila for consent issues.

[GreenFlashlight]

@SixRegrets said in Is this hobby on it's last legs?:

Isn't that what Shangrila is for, though? Why does it need to escape that particular quarantine zone?

Because the sexual fantasies are not separable from the power fantasy. I won't give details in case the people who did it read this post, but there's a level of indoctrination involved in a lot of these propositions; of mixing apparent friendliness and support with escalating depravity so I would come to view it as a normal part of the friendship; of trying to talk me into turning my no into a yes and thereby claiming control of my boundaries; of isolating me from the rest of the game's community so I would be dependent on them; of tying me into a conspiracy I was obligated to keep from others.

If you just want to send dirty text messages at people who are there for it, you go to Shang. If an illicit mutual masturbation session isn't the goal, you gotta go elsewhere.