Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.

[Warma Sheen]

People. Just people.

[Ominous]

@ganymede said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

This is for the vote only. All the work has been done. This is just the ol' public hearing and vote bullshit and I just so love people talking about property values as if I or anyone else who practices in real property law give a shit what you think about your property values.

I am so tired of hearing people file complaints about their neighbor doing something and how "We normally don't do this. We really don't care. We don't want this to become a big deal. We're only just letting you know. BUT OUR PROPERTY VALUES!" Their neighbor could be a Cthulhu cultist sacrificing children to dark gods on a nightly basis and they wouldn't care as long as it was in the muffled basement so when they sell their house the value isn't affected.

[Ganymede]

@ominous

"We oppose this zoning change to the area around the airport. We did not read the change, which will actually restrain development. We are just worried that more planes will fly overhead. We knew we were moving next to an airport. Think of our children and grandchildren!"

Yeah, fuuuuuuck you, no. You wanted the beautiful house in the woods built next to the airport, so don't give me no fucking sob story when the airport decides to be a fucking airport.

Dipshits.

(We had to read their 20 page e-mail because, y'know, notice and opportunity.)

[Tinuviel]

@Ganymede Tell them to build trench and baffles, like that airport in Amsterdam.

[Wizz]

My third-grade kiddo's principal just called and said he drew a bunch of naked women in his math book.

I am completely at a loss. He is really into art, draws all sorts of things, but I have been really careful as to what he's exposed to in terms of age-appropriate content in shows and movies and I have no idea where this would come from. (Just curiosity, I guess?)

I also have no idea where to go for guidance on this stuff...I know my super conservative fam would go the shame route and I really, really don't like that and won't do it.

Just sucks feeling like I am fumbling around in the dark on this one...this is a subject that seems very easy to fuck up.

[Aria]

@wizz said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

My third-grade kiddo's principal just called and said he drew a bunch of naked women in his math book.

I am completely at a loss. He is really into art, draws all sorts of things, but I have been really careful as to what he's exposed to in terms of age-appropriate content in shows and movies and I have no idea where this would come from. (Just curiosity, I guess?)

I also have no idea where to go for guidance on this stuff...I know my super conservative fam would go the shame route and I really, really don't like that and won't do it.

Just sucks feeling like I am fumbling around in the dark on this one...this is a subject that seems very easy to fuck up.

I'm not a parent, so definitely take my advice with a grain of salt, but.....

I think the best approach would be talking to him about how curiosity about bodies is natural, but there are appropriate times and places for that. Not because it's bad or shameful in any way, but because bodies are very personal things belonging to the people that inhabit them, so it's important not to make other people uncomfortable with unwelcome displays or unwelcome questions.

But, like, some kind of eight year old translated version of that?

[Auspice]

@wizz said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

My third-grade kiddo's principal just called and said he drew a bunch of naked women in his math book.

I am completely at a loss. He is really into art, draws all sorts of things, but I have been really careful as to what he's exposed to in terms of age-appropriate content in shows and movies and I have no idea where this would come from. (Just curiosity, I guess?)

I also have no idea where to go for guidance on this stuff...I know my super conservative fam would go the shame route and I really, really don't like that and won't do it.

Just sucks feeling like I am fumbling around in the dark on this one...this is a subject that seems very easy to fuck up.

One option:
Museum (I know covid, but many many museums have virtual visits and collections digitally) trip showing classical art. There's nudity in equal measures presented tastefully. Make it educational, make it 'hey I'm embracing your hobby, but there's a right way and a wrong way so we're going to discuss and learn which is which'

[Wizz]

@Aria

Very much how I want to approach it, but it's always the "coding it for an eight year old" part that is difficult, haha. It's a very complicated topic and I definitely want him to understand why without making him feel awful, so...I dunno. Maybe I'll sleep on it.

@auspice

That's a great suggestion! It's hard to know if he would appreciate the distinction yet, but it certainly couldn't hurt to look into resources.

[Aria]

@wizz said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Aria

Very much how I want to approach it, but it's always the "coding it for an eight year old" part that is difficult, haha. It's a very complicated topic and I definitely want him to understand why without making him feel awful, so...I dunno. Maybe I'll sleep on it.

@auspice

That's a great suggestion! It's hard to know if he would appreciate the distinction yet, but it certainly couldn't hurt to look into resources.

Here's the thing that I think lots of people forget:

Kids are really smart. Like, a lot smarter than we give them credit for. Definitely the coding it for an eight year old is difficult, but... I think a lot of times, adults get way more worked up about stuff than kids do.

We used to see all this hand-wringing about "OMG, how do I explain the <whisper> gay lifestyle to my children?!?" and it's like... look, Susan. No one is asking you to explain leather daddies or something to your four year old. You can chill. The few times I've had to explain what 'gay' is to a kid, it's pretty much a case of "Well, they love each other just like your mommy and daddy do. It's just that they're both girls." And usually the kid is like, "Okay! Can we color now?"

I think the emphasis on "because we don't want to make other people uncomfortable" idea will resonate pretty well if you can word it in a way he relates to.

[Too Old For This]

@wizz Hello! I have two boys that are 17 and 21 respectively. I might be able to help with the coding.

When you're ready to talk to him, just let him know that is totally okay to be curious about bodies and how different people have different bodies, but that its really important that when he's drawing bodies that he makes sure its okay with everyone. So like, its totally fine to draw in his own notebook or paper, but that its not okay to draw on things that don't belong to him, like math books that belong to the school. He wouldn't want someone coming into his room and drawing on his things without him saying its okay, so he needs to be respectful of others' property too. And that same concept goes for bodies, too. If he wants to draw bodies, he needs to make sure that its in a time and place that's okay with everyone. During school is not a good time for that sort of drawing because he's doing it in a public, shared space and everyone may not be okay with it. Its like if the class gets to have a special snack and everyone wants Butterfingers, but one of the kids is allergic to peanuts. Its not fair to him to be left out because of his allergy, so its better if everyone finds a different snack to have. Its okay to draw, but what he draws needs to be okay with the people he's around because a public space means anyone can see it and not everyone would be okay with it.

[Ganymede]

@too-old-for-this

Concur completely.

Maybe explain why others might not be okay with it: maybe they are uncomfortable with seeing naked bodies.

I really like how you suggest drawing in a safe place. I might add that if they wanted to show you, that it would be fine if it were done in a safe place. I'd want to know if they were drawing bodies which were inappropriate, like those depicting graphic violence in addition to the nudity. And I would explain why a drawing like that might hurt someone.

[bear_necessities]

@Wizz one time, I was having dinner with my friend and her son who was in kindergarten at the time, and he drew a stick figure of me. And then he drew two big ol' boobs on the stick figure. I laughed it off, his mother chatted to him later about why bodies are private and what things are appropriate to draw and when, and now he's like 18 years old and is perfectly normal and I don't think he remembers that one really awkward time that thing happened

It's okay your kid's drawing naked pictures. Just tell him those things aren't allowed in school.

[Wizz]

@aria said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

Here's the thing that I think lots of people forget:

Kids are really smart. Like, a lot smarter than we give them credit for. Definitely the coding it for an eight year old is difficult, but... I think a lot of times, adults get way more worked up about stuff than kids do.

We used to see all this hand-wringing about "OMG, how do I explain the <whisper> gay lifestyle to my children?!?" and it's like... look, Susan. No one is asking you to explain leather daddies or something to your four year old. You can chill. The few times I've had to explain what 'gay' is to a kid, it's pretty much a case of "Well, they love each other just like your mommy and daddy do. It's just that they're both girls." And usually the kid is like, "Okay! Can we color now?"

I don't intend to knock at you at all here because I think that you're right that adults generally do get more worked up than can be warranted, but like...you can't just flippantly assume that a kid understands across the board. A lot of things don't have a simple "that's just the way it is" answer, children don't have the years of context and experience that we do so a lot of distinctions we make can seem very arbitrary and hard to parse to them and they will want to avoid the discomfort they feel during those conversations? So sometimes they just play it off, exactly like you describe.

But as a parent, you're the one who has to deal with the fallout if you missed something crucial or treated it too casually.

I think the emphasis on "because we don't want to make other people uncomfortable" idea will resonate pretty well if you can word it in a way he relates to.

This is what I have been leaning on, haha. We'll see how he does over the next few weeks.

ETA: I really appreciate the suggestions and I had an initial conversation with him that followed them, and I think he gets it. He'll probably have roughly a thousand follow up questions at random times over the next few weeks, knowing him, haha, but it was less stressful having talked about this beforehand. Thanks y'all.

[Derp]

@ganymede said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

notice and opportunity

Makes incomprehensible angry noises.

[Aria]

@wizz said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

I don't intend to knock at you at all here because I think that you're right that adults generally do get more worked up than can be warranted, but like...you can't just flippantly assume that a kid understands across the board. A lot of things don't have a simple "that's just the way it is" answer, children don't have the years of context and experience that we do so a lot of distinctions we make can seem very arbitrary and hard to parse to them

Ohh, yeah, no. That is not a knock at all, dude. Not at all! In fact, that's pretty much exactly the point I was trying to make. Kids are super smart, they just don't have the context adults do. When we give them a bit of context that they can relate to, they're usually pretty good at figuring stuff out -- much moreso than we give them credit for.

[Tinuviel]

@wizz said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

A lot of things don't have a simple "that's just the way it is" answer

As a former child, and person responsible for children, that answer is never simple.

[Auspice]

@tinuviel said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

As a former child

lies.
you entered this world a crochety old man.

[Tinuviel]

@auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@tinuviel said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

As a former child

lies.
you entered this world a crochety old man.

You leave my crotch out of this.

[Botulism]

So, our President is currently being that player you ban who keeps changing IPs to log into your game and grief you.

[Tinuviel]

@botulism said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

So, our President is currently being that player you ban who keeps changing IPs to log into your game and grief you.