The Wheel of Time
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Has anyone else been watching this?
I've seen the first four episodes and while I do wish that the 1st episode would have been an hour and a half or two hours to flesh a few things out a bit more, I find that I am highly enjoying the series with the most recent episode, Ep 4, being pretty damned awesome.
Highly recommend catching it if you want a bit of a fantasy fix. There's still 4 more episodes to come for this first season but they are filming season 2 right now and hopefully numbers are good that a 3rd is given a go.
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Been discussing it in this thread: https://musoapbox.net/topic/319/good-tv/4461
This forum has a lot of boards that are redundant.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
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@ominous Oh damn, my eyes skipped right over that thread lol. Thanks for the heads up.
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@devrex and I do watch parties for this. It's been so much fun so far. I mean, yes, sometimes it can feel a bit rushed but when you're staring down the barrel of twenty books, you don't have time for one season per book. You've gotta get to the point.
ETA: And this thread is fine. WoT is big enough with enough of us knowing it that the Good TV thread would get completely drowned in short order and would require lots of spoiler warnings and such. People clicking on this thread should know what to expect.
Racism isn't Tinkerbell. It doesn't need you to believe in it for it to exist.
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@derp Oh for sure. I have no real issues with the changes that have been woven in, just a nitpick here and there. My only thing is I just wish they had more time in the Two Rivers to explore one or two little things before everything went nuts. Not a big deal in the grand scheme, and I think Episodes 3 and 4 had a lot more character building which is what a show like this needs.
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@rucket said in The Wheel of Time:
@derp Oh for sure. I have no real issues with the changes that have been woven in, just a nitpick here and there. My only thing is I just wish they had more time in the Two Rivers to explore one or two little things before everything went nuts. Not a big deal in the grand scheme, and I think Episodes 3 and 4 had a lot more character building which is what a show like this needs.
Yeah, it absolutely did, though I'm gonna shameless rip off from Devrex who is my WoT guru and say they've set up Perrin's whole 'hammer or axe' arc in a very visceral way which I greatly enjoy, and I like seeing the direction they take Mat so far.
Rand was about as flat and boring as I'd expect him to be, though (again, stealing shamelessly from Devrex) I like how they lampshaded that when Mat was like, "Oh, what, you're funny now? That's a new wrinkle."
Racism isn't Tinkerbell. It doesn't need you to believe in it for it to exist.
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Thanks for creating this thread! Some comments from me.
SPOILER ALERT - EPISODE 4 - SPOILER ALERT
For starters there is some great chemistry in this show. I'd say Lan and Moiraine, Lan and Nynaeve... uh, I guess the dude who plays Lan seems to be killing it. Ila's scene was right on the money, I thought, as well.
When it comes to the plot itself I think they are trying to simplify how the One Power works. For example I don't think anyone has said 'Saidin' or 'Saidar' once. That's perfectly okay as long as they stay internally consistent; for instance Logain knew how strong Nynaeve was when she channeled (in the books a man can know if a woman channels but that's it) yet he was captured in the first place by Aes Sedai who infiltrated his camp and Shielded him before he was able to defend himself.
It's creating some issues for book readers (such as myself) since I don't know how much of it they just haven't explained and how much is actually true in the show-world; for example I don't believe they've actually said male channelers are stronger on average than female channelers. Logain specifically was but that could be because he was an exception.
Also why would the Red Ajah hunt down all false Dragons if some are female? Wouldn't they rather train or use them against the Dark One's forces? There's no taint, there's no risk they'll go mad and kill everyone around them.
The focus on 'who is the Dragon Reborn' subplot is kinda weird. The books have been out for thirty years, that's a really easy thing to spoil. I just hope they don't try to make someone else be that person; that'd be a massive and very unfortunate departure from the books' story to the point of just making the story a completely different one. Character arcs like Min, Aviendha and Elayne's would be massively changed or made irrelevant in the process as well.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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I'm of...mixed opinions after I saw the first episode. Haven't watched the others yet.
I don't mind the age up. No problems there.
My big issue was Perrin's wife. I mean...just a quick summation...'Woman In The Fridge' cranked up to 11 and with the knob ripped off.
He doesn't just kill her on accident; the axe strike was to her lower abdomen, meaning Perrin hit the baby on the way to killing his wife.
Just...way unnecessary. Especially for creating a character with the express purpose of dying just to give Perrin a kick in the ass out the door to answer the Call To Adventure.
Seriously, they could have used Master Luhhan for the same purpose with the same effect; Perrin accidently killing hismentor and father figure would have been devastating enough and served the same purpose, without creating a character from whole cloth.
That's my big issue and rant. I'll see how the other episodes go...
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@arkandel said in The Wheel of Time:
Thanks for creating this thread! Some comments from me.
SPOILER ALERT - EPISODE 4 - SPOILER ALERT
For starters there is some great chemistry in this show. I'd say Lan and Moiraine, Lan and Nynaeve... uh, I guess the dude who plays Lan seems to be killing it. Ila's scene was right on the money, I thought, as well.
When it comes to the plot itself I think they are trying to simplify how the One Power works. For example I don't think anyone has said 'Saidin' or 'Saidar' once. That's perfectly okay as long as they stay internally consistent; for instance Logain knew how strong Nynaeve was when she channeled (in the books a man can know if a woman channels but that's it) yet he was captured in the first place by Aes Sedai who infiltrated his camp and Shielded him before he was able to defend himself.
It's creating some issues for book readers (such as myself) since I don't know how much of it they just haven't explained and how much is actually true in the show-world; for example I don't believe they've actually said male channelers are stronger on average than female channelers. Logain specifically was but that could be because he was an exception.
Also why would the Red Ajah hunt down all false Dragons if some are female? Wouldn't they rather train or use them against the Dark One's forces? There's no taint, there's no risk they'll go mad and kill everyone around them.
The focus on 'who is the Dragon Reborn' subplot is kinda weird. The books have been out for thirty years, that's a really easy thing to spoil. I just hope they don't try to make someone else be that person; that'd be a massive and very unfortunate departure from the books' story to the point of just making the story a completely different one. Character arcs like Min, Aviendha and Elayne's would be massively changed or made irrelevant in the process as well.
Yeah, the lack of a Saidin/Saidar explanation really makes the Red Ajah problematic, instead of a regretful necessity. Personally, in stead of Egwene gowing for a swin, which really served no story purpose, I would have used the tme to film the Dragon moount prologue instead. It explains a bit of the history and lore, but also explains why Men using the One Power is a Very Bad Thing.
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@arkandel said in The Wheel of Time:
S P O I L E R S for Episode 4
For example I don't think anyone has said 'Saidin' or 'Saidar' once
Not outright, no but there's a clear difference between Saidin and Saidar given that Saidar is pure and white while Saidin has the taint wrapped up all in it, as can be seen whenever Logain channels. I think they are setting up how different the two powers are with the stuff we got on Logain and will see more/know more when the Dragon Reborn makes their debut.
I don't believe they've actually said male channelers are stronger on average than female channelers. Logain specifically was but that could be because he was an exception.
They haven't said anything on that either, but there were Aes Sedai there commenting on how strong Logain was. That said, Nynaeve is one of the strongest female channelers alive (barring 2 others in the book), so Logain sensing her power makes sense that he'd be shocked because he just wrecked the shields of two women who were holding him, and it took all 7 or 8 women (? I didn't get an actual count) present to block him and gentle him once they linked.
Also why would the Red Ajah hunt down all false Dragons if some are female? Wouldn't they rather train or use them against the Dark One's forces? There's no taint, there's no risk they'll go mad and kill everyone around them.
Hrm, I agree on this point. Unless the Dragon Reborn as a female could channel Saidin. There IS precedent for a female channeling Saidin, but that's not exactly something I could see the Creator/the Pattern approving, lol. This is one of my nitpicks as well. Like I GET it for the "mystery" and such, but there's some flaws in the basic logic unless there are reasonable explanations. Though I've heard one person kind of explain it as the Prophecies being mucked up because it's been 3,000 years and this is believable, so I've pushed past it and am enjoying it for what it is haha.
The focus on 'who is the Dragon Reborn' subplot is kinda weird.
I mean, Book 1 makes it abundantly clear, yes. But this is the first season of a TV show and there needs to be some build up to 'hook' viewers who aren't familiar with the source material. I'm fine with the mystery and the misdirects because it is ABUNDANTLY clear who the Dragon Reborn is, even in the show based on context clues that they have just punched viewers in the face if they are familiar with the series. So it's a give and take, and honestly Book 1 focuses very little on the other Eamon's Fielders, and the show is expanding things to show more viewpoints and give us better characterization of people like Mat, Perrin, Moiraine, Lan, Nynaeve, and others which I think is great because once the series gets going, it's far less about ONE person, and it's a much larger ensemble cast. Starting off with an ensemble makes perfect sense to me.
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@runescryer said in The Wheel of Time:
Seriously, they could have used Master Luhhan for the same purpose with the same effect; Perrin accidently killing hismentor and father figure would have been devastating enough and served the same purpose, without creating a character from whole cloth.
I agree with this, and for what its worth, Brandon Sanderson himself commented on reddit that this was a suggestion he passed along as well.
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@runescryer I am just trying to not nitpick. And there's nitpicking! For example Warders were kinda... nice? Pleasant people? They smiled a lot?
You are supposed to be stone-faced violence-on-a-short-leash people, you guys!
Also the fight scenes... the show can use better choreography in general, I think. It's an expensive show, surely they can afford that. Like, at no point did I feel just from watching that Lan is basically the best swordsman of this Age.
As for the Saidin vs Saidar I get it though. It's hard to push out that much exposition when the show has more than enough of it as it is, and to be fair the rules about channeling can literally fill books - in fact they have :).
I just want to get a clear understanding of how the show's 'rules' work. Like are men and women able to see each other's weaves or tell how strong each other is? Hell, can women tell if another woman can channel by sight? Are male and female channelers supposed to be on par, strength-wise?
... Also why did that Warder's axe break the Shield on Logain?
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@arkandel Hey, the Warders were fun and cool and tbh I like how personable all of them are, in the books they were way too grumpy and I think that would suck to watch on TV, lol.
The producers have said that some of the CGI work was impacted by COVID, so my hope is that Season 2 and beyond will be better in that regard.
... Also why did that Warder's axe break the Shield on Logain?
To set up Nynaeve going Super Saiyan, pft.
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@rucket I kinda hope they don't allow too much power inflation in the show. Robert Jordan kept upping the upper scale of powerful channelers in every other book.
Between Nynaeve, Lanfear and the rest of the Forsaken they could just leave it there. Same as Logain, Mazrim and other Forsaken along with the Dragon Reborn (I can't believe I'm trying to not spoil who that person is
).Nynaeve could comfortably be the top white-hat on the women's side which also serves to keep her special. Do we need show-Alivia?
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@arkandel said in The Wheel of Time:
... Also why did that Warder's axe break the Shield on Logain?
Me, after watching that. To be fair I don't think the axe broke the shield. It exploding and hitting everyone did. But that the shield was a physical thing for the axe to pass through was weird.
And yes. poor Perrin. completely unneeded.
It is interesting hearing how people who have never read the books are reacting to it all though. The Who is the Dragon Reborn? Seems to be working for them.
Maybe we have been spoiled by some of the really good fight choreography lately but it really does seem subpar. At this point I am fully expecting Aiel to be basically baton twirling X-treme martial artists
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@wildbaboons Leaked footage of Far Dareis Mai in action.
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@arkandel I mean, I'd be fine if most people had a top echelon of how strong they are with the power, keeping them on the same level, and then you have the Dragon who was already stated in the show as being "the most powerful channeler to have ever lived" lol.
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I feel like the eps get quite a bit better as they go. I didn't love the pilot but the action climax in episode two worked a lot better for me, and three and four were solid with some good world-building/character moments. I'm skeptical of the pacing given how short the season is, but overall am enjoying it.
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@three-eyed-crow Btw did you read that Mat's actor is changing in season 2?
No explanation was provided that I know of.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@arkandel said in The Wheel of Time:
@three-eyed-crow Btw did you read that Mat's actor is changing in season 2?
No explanation was provided that I know of.
Yeah I'm a wait and see on that. Overall I've loved the casting so far, so if the new Mat comes in and does a great job then great.
