Meshing Groups

[thesuntsar]

Pulling this away from the peeve thread, because it's something I struggle with whenever I put together a mixed group of players and it's less of a peeve and more of a thing I let rattle in my brain a lot.

I find that it can be challenging sometimes to get a group of 5 to 7 players that aren't all familiar with each other to RP in a way that's engaging not just me, but the other players in the scene. Sometimes I notice they sort of just play alongside rather than with the other people.

So how do, fellow GMs? Tips? Tricks?!

THREATS?

[Tinuviel]

Smaller groups. If you want to encourage people to RP together, get two or three maximum together for something small and low-stakes. Five to seven is a large enough scene that some folks will be wary and/or uncomfortable, so will stick to who they know. Two or three and they've no option but to RP with someone new.

That said, don't force it. Sometimes people just don't want to RP with people with whom they're unfamiliar, especially not in any organised scene/plot. Especially if they've got limited play time.

[Derp]

@tinuviel

Everything Tinuviel said.

I'm one of those people that if you put me in a room with more than like 4 people there is a high chance that I am finding any excuse I can to bow out as quickly as possible.

I am not a social butterfly. I feel awkward around strangers. It takes me weeks of being around someone in RL before I stop feeling nervous around them.

Putting me in a room with 6 other people and going find a way to play nice everyone! feels a lot like putting me in a cage with six hungry lions and telling me that they're just big friendly kitties.

Small scenes good. Running scenes for already-defined groups is better. Work with the relationships that are there. If you want to create new relationships, that's best done one at a time, on an individual basis, and not in a big group setting.

[imstillhere]

@thesuntsar I remind them at the start, "Sometimes it's easy to get tunnel vision in an event and just respond to the dice and GM poses. Don't forget to talk with and banter with one another so you have something to RP about together after the event!"

Just reminding the players to be aware like that seems to help. Also telling them "You all know each other's names from the trip over here" helps, hahah

[Kanye Qwest]

Man idk, I try to come up with opportunities for people to help each other IC, as I think that fosters a (FALSE@!!!) sense of camaraderie that will hopefully lead to some friendly encouragement and chit chat and MAYBE lead to engagement between players outside the plot.

Like if someone does a really good roll, and someone else botches, give the first player the opportunity to save the other if they like or take a blow for them. Everyone likes to feel like a hero! I think it's even more satisfying than getting the big damage, or the killshot, etc.

[Herja]

I think the biggest thing that helps me is to give PCs space to get to know each other. If you make every moment non-stop action, you lose a lot of opportunity to allow PCs to bond and get to know each other. So, if I am doing, say, a dungeon quest, maybe we have a brief interlude where they camp for the night. Maybe they are just walking around the forest and talking, looking along the trail for signs of their quarry. If players are given space, they will typically 'fill in the gaps' with conversation and that is step one to developing PC relationships.

[Tinuviel]

Oh, another thought: Why are these people in particular here? Come up with a reason for why these specific individuals are involved in the story you're telling. Give each something that only they can do, so that everyone is useful/helpful but won't really succeed without the other people.

[Quinn]

@tinuviel said in Meshing Groups:

Oh, another thought: Why are these people in particular here? Come up with a reason for why these specific individuals are involved in the story you're telling. Give each something that only they can do, so that everyone is useful/helpful but won't really succeed without the other people.

This is what I try to do--find that little something that a PC might not get to play or mention all the time that would be cool to include that can build off another little something another PC has, etc. And yeah some people will still shrug and only be interested in what they're doing, but most of the time you'll get a couple people to hit it off and EVERYONE is going to love it if you allow them to use the random skill they picked up for fun instead of the main standard ones that always get pulled out. Let that guy who picked up a couple ranks in geology find a safe place when rocks fall. Have the person with points in fashion know that an NPC of that level would never be caught dead in those shoes, etc.

This is obviously easier for staff to do on places where sheets are hidden, but if you're doing a player run plot and don't have access to people's sheets you can also just straight up ask them if there's something they'd like to highlight. More often than not you'll find SOME overlap that can link people who don't really know each other together. I think we've all had things on our sheets at some point we wished we could actively use that just never come up.

But in a group of 5-7, I'd say if you can get even just 2 people that didn't know each other before to really engage together that's a win and anything above it is a bonus.

[mietze]

Would maybe stating that as a specific goal for the scene be helpful? It might sound awkward doing it at first, because I know as a GM many of us want to be more hands off and not forcing any particular outcome. But encouraging people specifically that one of your hopes is to see people interacting with people new to them in an active way isn't bad, I don't think. If that is one of your goals! At least I personally don't find having OOC goals objectionable for a scene (we rescue this person, we steal this thing, we pose at/acknowledge people outside of our regulars a few times during the course of it)

I know the success of that is probably highly dependent on the individuals in that group though.

[Ganymede]

@thesuntsar

It’s real hard to teach social skills, especially in an environment that caters to the non-social.

[Tinuviel]

@ganymede said in Meshing Groups:

@thesuntsar

It’s real hard to teach social skills, especially in an environment that caters to the non-social.

More pertinently, it's hard to teach people anything when they don't want to learn. They're comfortable in their group, they aren't inclined or desirous to change that.

[L. B. Heuschkel]

Echoing what Tinuviel said: Smaller groups. I list my events that people can sign up for as four seats only (though if I know that everyone who signed up can play well in a group, I may take five or six). It's far too easy to lose someone or end up with four separate storylines in one scene otherwise.

Also, don't be afraid of narrative buttkicking. If it takes an NPC with an ego to herd all the cats in one direction, do it.

[Seraphim73]

Unlike some of the others, I do okay meshing with larger groups at once -- if I have the RL focus. But it can still be good to build up the personal connections between the characters in smaller groups if you have that opportunity.

If you're just jumping into a 5-7 person scene and want to get them working together? My best advice is to give them something they all have to react to, and something that they have to work together to overcome/avoid/whatever. @Quinn's advice on tailoring things to the individual PCs is great advice -- particularly if the thing they have to react to either is specifically triggering to some of the PCs (the PCs, not the players) or directly engages with some of their less-used skills as suggested.

I also agree that @mietze's mention of being OOCly up-front and honest about the situation: "This is a scene to get all our characters connected." This will give the players incentive to connect the characters, and when they react to that thing you're doing as the GM that they all have to react to, they don't just react by fleeing the scene.

[L. B. Heuschkel]

@seraphim73 said in Meshing Groups:

I also agree that @mietze's mention of being OOCly up-front and honest about the situation: "This is a scene to get all our characters connected." This will give the players incentive to connect the characters, and when they react to that thing you're doing as the GM that they all have to react to, they don't just react by fleeing the scene.

Or if they do -- well, if they joined the scene knowing its OOC purpose and then proceed to do the exact opposite, at least you have some basis for not making that player's meshing in a priority compared with the ones who are actively trying.

[il-volpe]

@thesuntsar You can have a chatty NPC set the tone for them. You're all riding out to the wizard's tower and your NPC bard sings about the hedgehog and gets them all to play truth-or-dare.

You can make special effort to provide little opportunities for PCs to show their mettle in some way before the big bad shows, so they have a clearer interest in cooperating and negotiating with one another.

As a long-term thing, you can use The Voltron McGuffin but MU players tend to play close to the chest, so you may have to contrive reasons they must reveal that they've got part of it.

Edited to explain that the Voltron McGuffin is any multi-part wonderful thingie that the PCs have parts of or must cooperate to build. Abelard's walking stick of +2 bashing people on the head, Brigid's wonderful length of string that ties itself 'round what she wants in other people's pockets, Camille's pointy rock of making people you stab with a pointy rock bleed to death, Darius's gem of really good vision, put them together and they magically turn into the greatbow Bloodhoney, the only thing that can kill Ohmygodzerka, now all they need to do is not miss...

[thesuntsar]

@tinuviel said in Meshing Groups:

Smaller groups. If you want to encourage people to RP together, get two or three maximum together for something small and low-stakes. Five to seven is a large enough scene that some folks will be wary and/or uncomfortable, so will stick to who they know. Two or three and they've no option but to RP with someone new.

Yeah, I agree that in an ideal situation you're GMing consistently for smaller groups. Sometimes I find that if I'm not hitting at least five people then I'm "falling behind" or not giving everyone a chance to be involved. However, that's probably also some false pressure that I'm putting on myself to be everywhere all the time.

@imstillhere said in Meshing Groups:

I remind them at the start, "Sometimes it's easy to get tunnel vision in an event and just respond to the dice and GM poses. Don't forget to talk with and banter with one another so you have something to RP about together after the event!"

Great idea, I need to remember to do that more on occasion when the situation calls for it.

@kanye-qwest said in Meshing Groups:

Like if someone does a really good roll, and someone else botches, give the first player the opportunity to save the other if they like or take a blow for them. Everyone likes to feel like a hero! I think it's even more satisfying than getting the big damage, or the killshot, etc.

Yes very much agree. I like utilizing those kind of situations.

@herja said in Meshing Groups:

I think the biggest thing that helps me is to give PCs space to get to know each other. If you make every moment non-stop action, you lose a lot of opportunity to allow PCs to bond and get to know each other.

This is probably something I fail at. I get very caught up in going "Okay I started at 8 but I really need to be wrapping up what I'm doing by 11 or else I'll be too wound up to sleep!!!" and then I tend to push stuff along at my speed rather than a more natural pacing. It might help to just say "We're going for three hours and then pausing" than trying to hit a plot point in those three hours.

@mietze said in Meshing Groups:

Would maybe stating that as a specific goal for the scene be helpful? It might sound awkward doing it at first, because I know as a GM many of us want to be more hands off and not forcing any particular outcome.

Probably. I do like to stay hands off and not force their interactions because I already worry that I can be too hands on. But maybe sometimes that's just warranted and a good idea to lay out at the beginning.

[Carma]

This post is deleted!

[Tat]

@thesuntsar said in Meshing Groups:

This is probably something I fail at. I get very caught up in going "Okay I started at 8 but I really need to be wrapping up what I'm doing by 11 or else I'll be too wound up to sleep!!!" and then I tend to push stuff along at my speed rather than a more natural pacing. It might help to just say "We're going for three hours and then pausing" than trying to hit a plot point in those three hours.

Or just be okay with less interaction IN the scene, and build in time for those characters to connect around what happened later. Honestly, in action scenes, I often feel like I'm doing good to track what's going on at all. But if the GM gives a few places where character actions affect each other - someone saves someone, or nearly hits them, or heals them or rallies them, or even they all see the same crazy thing - and there's a beat AFTER the action, then I can do all kinds of bonding.

Plots that build in social scenes for the aftermath are nice because then I don't have to personally go begging for it, or other people's timelines won't pass mine. If we all know 'we're RPing the aftermath tomorrow at X time', we can hold mental space and RL time for that and get that meaty goodness in.

[Gingerlily]

@herja said in Meshing Groups:

I think the biggest thing that helps me is to give PCs space to get to know each other. If you make every moment non-stop action, you lose a lot of opportunity to allow PCs to bond and get to know each other. So, if I am doing, say, a dungeon quest, maybe we have a brief interlude where they camp for the night. Maybe they are just walking around the forest and talking, looking along the trail for signs of their quarry. If players are given space, they will typically 'fill in the gaps' with conversation and that is step one to developing PC relationships.

I like this because in the past I've had times where I feel like I lose a sense of who my character is. (Like a fancy actor asking "What's my motivation?") because I'd be involved in plots but not really get to know many people outside of plots, and allies are great but for me if my character doesn't have friends to talk to about random whatever, I kind of lose a sense of what is making them tick.

[Snackness]

@gingerlily You just beautifully articulated the issue I've been having on games for the past couple of years.