Bring back the Hog Pit

Pandora

Surely we're done pretending it wasn't the main draw of MU* Soapbox?

I'm too old and cranky to to find a new place to argue with people, just bring it back.

Ghost

@Pandora Nah, fuck that. It was just a place where people were literally allowed to bully others without any sort of checks and balances. If you want that kind of action it's available on another forum.

...however

Most of the usual bullying targets didn't join the other forum and I think it's probably best for the mental and emotional health of people who don't want to be bullied to have a space safe from those people.

Fuck bringing it back. Delete it and nuke the history.

faraday

@Ghost said in Bring back the Hog Pit:

Fuck bringing it back. Delete it and nuke the history.

Could also delete it but maintain a readonly archive on some fileshare somewhere for posterity. I've been told that buried in with the toxic sludge are some useful tidbits, but YMMV.

But bring it back? Oh heck no.

Folks who wanted the hog pit already migrated to the other forum, along with the ones who were banned from here. Bringing back the hog pit isn't going to magically reverse-migrate the community. It's the same basic problem that faces all the Twitter/Facebook competitors. Social media requires people, and the MUSH community isn't big enough to sustain two active forums.

Ghost

@faraday said in Bring back the Hog Pit:

Could also delete it but maintain a readonly archive on some fileshare somewhere for posterity. I've been told that buried in with the toxic sludge are some useful tidbits, but YMMV.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but the only people really wanting to keep a readable copy of the Hog Pit are the same people who want it to be back open to partake in it.

That, and the HogPit is like 3000 pages and if you kept only ONE INSTANCE of each of the following threads it would probably be 300 pages:

argument about social dice
argument about what is or isn't an apology
PERSON is the new BAD PERSON EVERYONE HATES
Arx stuff when there was already a separate Arx thread
I'm here to call out ______________ before I get called out for my own bad behavior
etc etc etc

The whole thing is clearly 80%+ abuse give or take the same 8 people bragging to each other about how great they are at RPing together, so I'm with you. Not entirely sure what "good stuff" should be saved there, especially given how cyclical the conversations are half of those same conversations have already probably been recycled at the other place.

I think it (HP) stands more than anything as a recorded history of mistreatment for far, far more people than it stands as a memory of good times for the people who thrived in it, and for the life of me cant understand why the former isnt the more important culture to protect

reimesu

@Pandora said in Bring back the Hog Pit:

I'm too old and cranky to to find a new place to argue with people, just bring it back.

No.

The only reason it's still accessible is because Gany made a promise and we're honoring it. It's closed, it stays closed.

Derp

@reimesu said in Bring back the Hog Pit:

No.

Not only no, hell no.

Hella

Maybe instead of a Hog Pit, we could establish a Log Pit, and we just post links to logs from scenes we've really loved being in. I'm only half joking.

Derp

@Hella said in Bring back the Hog Pit:

Maybe instead of a Hog Pit, we could establish a Log Pit, and we just post links to logs from scenes we've really loved being in. I'm only half joking.

faraday

@Ghost said in Bring back the Hog Pit:

I think it (HP) stands more than anything as a recorded history of mistreatment for far, far more people than it stands as a memory of good times for the people who thrived in it, and for the life of me cant understand why the former isnt the more important culture to protect

Burning the evidence of mistreatment may not help them either though.

But I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other. I didn't read it when it was live, I'm not reading it now that it's locked, and I wouldn't read it if it were in a HTML archive.

I merely point out that a middle ground of a static HTML archive does, technologically speaking, exist.

Derp

@faraday

It was something considered way back in the day when everything was breaking all the time and we were trying to figure out what to do about that. Realistically, though, it mostly exists because we promised that it would continue to exist for as long as we could maintain it.

Moving it over to an HTML archive is probably more work than what any of the current administration is willing to put into it, especially for something that is as-of-yet Not Broke.

Might be a thing for the future, though. It's a good thought.

Ghost

@faraday said in Bring back the Hog Pit:

Burning the evidence of mistreatment may not help them either though.

Honestly, if there was any chance of those people being made to feel like their behavior isn't welcome, it would have happened years ago. I think it went the other direction and people cheering their friends on while they chercher le poundOfFlesh(tm) #purposefullyBadFrench. I think it feels good to get punch down on people who annoy you, doubly so if your friends reward you for it, but no matter how you cut it, punishing people for self gratification and praise is the opposite of healthy.

...and it's not like the Hog Pit itself is required for objective and ACTUAL discussion on unsafe behavior by certain players. There are ways to keep each other notified, even on a forum, without attacking.

In my estimation, here is what the community needs to do:

Fuck promises. Burn the Hog Pit. I'm sure someone promised not to take that Robert E Lee statue down, but hanging onto monuments to bad behavior really only helps the people who support that shit.
Given the some 40-50 people or so I've known who hate being on servers with that specific biomass of people who do that stuff need to start talking to each other and find gamerunners/staff/etc who are prepared to allow off-server bullying to be qualification for in-game bans. Those people need to avoid the other forum, and if someone sees people on the game openly denigrating other players, they should start to learn that there are actual ramifications for being a bad person REGARDLESS of how much self-esteem people draw from friends for treating others that way.

If that means the community needs to split and the people who are sick of being treated like shit need to get away from the ones who enjoy treating others like pieces of shit, then all the better.

But...and this is an important but...if the Hog Pit ever reopens and the floodgates open, letting the people who haven't had regular targets for a while now back at their old hunting ground, you can pretty much guarantee 10 more years of that behavior being normalized.

Hella

@Ghost said in Bring back the Hog Pit:

But...and this is an important but...if the Hog Pit ever reopens and the floodgates open, letting the people who haven't had regular targets for a while now back at their old hunting ground, you can pretty much guarantee 10 more years of that behavior being normalized.

Can we just avoid fanning flames? Let others do what they're doing, and we can just do what we're doing without constantly calling back to the rift and categorizing some people as bad/evil? It's the same behavior, but from our side. Now, you're punching at them. You can make good points without doing that. I've seen you do it.

Derp

@Ghost shhh

Derp

I'm making an executive decision to lock this thread.

It's not coming back, we aren't going to talk about it, it's not a debate, and this is only going to stir up shit that doesn't need stirred up.

Good chat. Someone post some pictures of puppies or something.