New Comic/Superhero Themed MU*

[Miss Demeanor]

@Bobotron Nah, that's okay. X-Men had their shot with me and they blew it on Famke Jansen and Halle Berry.

[Entropy]

You know, speaking of X-Men, that actually brings up something I want to look at with this game. The theme of X-Men is this big civil rights issue, with Professor X acting as MLK, and Magneto being a stand in for Malcolm X. But... in a world where you have Thunder Gods beating up on rock aliens and guys who can create magical power armor and manipulate the threads of reality itself... why on earth does anyone have this big major prejudice against this one particular subset of people who have powers? Functionally, to the standard person on the street, what would really be the difference between Cyclops and the Hulk? They're both people with unnatural abilities that could wreck your day... and your city, within a matter of seconds.

Does anyone else ever feel like the theme of the X-Men stretches the suspension of disbelief too much? It'd be perfect if they existed in a world by themselves, like the movies, but in the context of the marvel universe at large, or in the case of most comic based MUs, an integrated universe, how does one really reconcile that?

[Miss Demeanor]

It didn't end up affecting JUST mutants, though. The Civil War line the Avengers movies are following now? That was a thing that was happening at the same time as the mutant outcry for the X-Men. It affected many, and like with anything that involves multiple groups and multiple locations, there were different 'titles' for the overarching issue that largely depended on where you were and what you identified as.

[Bobotron]

@Miss-Demeanor
I think @Entropy was more speaking about the X-Men in general as a metaphor for equality and civil rights and such, not Civil War specifically.

[Miss Demeanor]

@Bobotron I know what he was talking about, I was saying that it -wasn't- a storyline that was specific to the X-Men. Its just how -that- subset of the larger Marvel Universe saw, experienced, and dealt with it. Their 'civil war' is happening at the same time as the actual Civil War storyline in the larger Marvel universe. Metahumans (i.e. both mutants and otherwise) are being 'asked' to register so the government can keep track of them. When there's resistance to that, it blossoms further into the Registration Act. While, for obvious reasons, the X-Men really only touch on the parts of it that are pertinent to the X-Men, it doesn't mean they were the only ones to experience it. Its the whole reason why Stark and Cap have the falling out. Cap feels its too much of an infringement on basic rights, while Tony thinks its a good idea and is cooperating.

[Thenomain]

@Bobotron

I liked the X-Men movies. Even the last one, with the exception of saying how so-and-so was a "class three". That came out of nowhere, with no foundation or explanation. The movies were watchable, occasionally funny, great setups for action pieces. Were they cinema classics? Not by a long shot. Were they cringe-worthy? Maybe a little at times. But they were the best superhero movies to come out since Christopher Reeves' Superman. I enjoyed all three, and would watch them again if someone offered dinner and a movie.

(I realize that Tim Burton's Batman movie was first, but I didn't think that was near as good nor as superhero-y as The X-Men.)

You know what wasn't good? Any movie starring Wolverine. "The Wolverine" especially, and that movie had such a good premise to be about how Mr. Claws is so far out of his element that he almost repeatedly dies, mixing the Superhero genre with the Asian Revenge Cinema genre. But no, it's some schlock based on a horrible comic storyline. I can't believed I paid more than a dollar to see that.

[Entropy]

@Miss-Demeanor

I'm not talking about Civil War, or the X-Men's place in that story. I'm talking about the overall theme of the X-Men/mutant stories in Marvel before, during, and after the Civil War storyline. Civil War was a story that had the other heroes facing something similar to the things that X-Men have been tackling since the 60's, but it wasn't so much about the "racial prejudice" aspect like the X-Men concept.

Mutants are supposed to be analogues for minorities, but when they exist in a world full of other people with superpowers, too, the "mutant scare" of "living weapons" just doesn't really hold any water. We are led to believe that there are people out there who think that Thor is just the coolest thing ever, but Storm is a demon from hell that poses a threat to our very way of life. Basically, the concept of the mutant as a displaced societal class just can't hold up to scrutiny under the umbrella of a world where aliens, robots, genetically modified weapons, and the freakish results of lab accidents all run around with the same or even more destructive or invasive powers.

[Runescryer]

@Entropy

I think that the issue you're having is in trying to discover the logic and reason behind things that are the antithesis: bigotry and prejudice. one of the reasons that the old Star Trek episode 'Let That Be Your Last Battlefield' is so powerful is that is shows just how stupid, blind, and unreasoning bigotry is.

Before I start getting into things, let me say that while I talk here about serious and tragic real-world examples, I'm not comparing them to the fictional Marvel Universe and the mutant situation to cheapen or lessen the severity of what has happened and what is going on. I'm simply showing how mass media hysteria fuels similar behavior in the real world.

Now, with that said, there are some things to consider as to why such anti-mutant bias exists in the Marvel Universe.

1. It's not always the mutants that are the 'enemy'. You mentioned Hulk as an example of a metahuman that causes destruction, but Hulk doesn't get a free pass because he's not a mutant. On the contrary, for most of his existence, Hulk is feared as much or more than the 'mutant threat' by the general populace. Even Spider-Man has to deal with mistrust and a bit of hatred from the general public sometimes thanks to JJJ. So there's not a 'mutants always bad, other heroes always good' mentality. The perception of the general public towards an individual or group is the main factor.Which leads to...

2. Presence in the media. For most of their existence, the X-Men had no media presence. There was never any mentions of them existing, much less there being a group of heroic mutants. Professor Xavier, for good or bad, decided to keep the existence of the X-Men a complete secret in order to keep the school safe. So, the first time the general public ever heard the term 'mutant' was when Magneto and the Brotherhood of Mutants first took over a US military base and began making public demands, back in X-Men #1. Even though the X-Men saved the day, Xavier kept all mention of the team out of the press. All anyone knew was that there were these people called mutants who almost started a nuclear war; there was no knowledge that it was mutants who stopped the threat also, just some costumed folks, could have been the Avengers or Fantastic Four. That's something very powerful when the only mention of an ethnic group comes in conjunction with terrorism and near-global annihilation. And it wasn't just in the US. Magneto publicly captures a Russian nuclear sub and steals its missiles, placing them in orbit. No word in the press as to who stopped him. A mutant goes on a rampage in Edinburgh, killing a prominent politician (the first Proteus storyline). Again, no mention as to who stopped the killer mutant. And on, and on. The first time that mutants got any good press or publicity in the minds of the average citizens of the Marvel Universe was in the mid-80's when the X-Men publicly sacrificed their lives to save the city of Dallas from annihilation (leading to their rebirth and hidden years in Australia in the late 80's/90's). Up until then, it was nothing but politicians and talking heads holding up Magneto as the sterotypical mutant with no public counter from the good guys other than Xavier, who everyone thought was human, talking about morality and how genetics don't define someone as good or bad. A very hard sell when you have Magneto, Mystique, and the Brotherhood acting in public as terrorists for the 'mutant cause'. Think about the first time you heard the term 'Muslim' or 'Palestinian'. If you're a child of the 70's and 80's like me, chances are good it was in connection with some form of terrorist act. And that's how you start thinking of them because that's how the media only ever shows them. Later on, of course, you learn that things are not exactly that clear cut or simple; that much of the news we get is condensed for easy 'understanding'. One only needs to look at the wave of Islamophobia washing over us to see the mirror of how the media portrays mutants in the Marvel Universe. There are horrific, barbaric acts being carried out in the name of Islam, and the general public wonders why the moderate Muslims don't speak out. The reality is that they do speak out, as loudly as they can each time, but such things aren't shown by the news media because there's no ratings in it. So, in a great twit of irony, Xavier enforcing a silence surrounding the existence of the X-Men actually fuels the anti-mutant hysteria.

3. It's about the children. Mutant powers emerge in adolescence, when parents are still protective, sometimes overprotective, of their children. When Trayvon Martin was killed, millions of African-American parents saw their own children facing that fate. Parents in the Marvel Universe face something similar in having fear and paranoia of their children suddenly gaining powers or turning into something 'other'. There's a certain 'there but for the grace of God go I' sort of mentality when the news talks about some kid suddenly manifesting powers and nuking a school. Or a mob throwing stones at a child who now has lizard-like features. It's another way the media fuels the paranoia and fear, when every instance you see of mutant powers manifesting on the nightly news is either a monster being unleashed or a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Even if the truth is that the majority of mutant activations happen quietly with no visible side effects, all the media reports about, much less knows about, is 'Lizard Boy terrorizes classmates, film at 11'. With the constant barrage, Marvel Universe parents start worrying about their children becoming 'freaks'. Parents already freak out about normal teenage surliness and rebellion, wondering if drugs are the cause of the change in their sweet child's attitude. Now it's "Johnny just told me to shut up and that i don't understand him....Is he becoming a mutant?" Parents do stupid things and jump to stupid conclusions when they can't understand what's going on with their kids, or forget what they were like when they were that age. Wild, outlandish theories become plausible. I lived through the 'Satanic Panic' of the 80's, when heavy metal music was a path straight to the Devil, never minding the fact that my grandparents' generation had already labeled Elvis and the Beatles as Devil's music during my parent's generation. And let's not even go into Role Playing Games. While it seems counter-intuitive, the sad fact is that desperate and confused parents often do things that harm their children when faced with situations and behaviors beyond their understanding. Children sent to rehabilitation centers that employ torture and brainwashing techniques to cure all sorts of 'behaviors' are all too frighteningly common in the real world, and I have no doubt that the parents that send their child to one of those facilities truly loves them and is trying to do what's best for them in their own minds.

4. It's about the fear of extinction. Most people understand the concept of evolution. And they understand the idea that at one point, Neanderthals were out evolved by Cro-Magnons and became extinct. Now, here come mutants which are the next step in evolution and humanity sees the fate of the Neanderthal as it's own fate. It also down't help that in terms of origin, mutants outnumber other metahumans by a significant margin; at a high point, I think there were an estimated 15,000 mutants worldwide compared to a few thousand of all other metahumans. And then there's predictions on the news like 'the last human will be born in 2025, all children born from then on will be mutants', or whatever the storyline in Marvel was. Marvel citizens aren't afraid of being replaced by metahumans because most everyone knows that it's kind of a pain in the ass to become a metahuman in general. Exposure to radiation, take part in a secret government program, build yourself a suit of high-tech armor, be born an extra-dimensional god...these are no everyday occurrences. But there are millions of babies being born every day. And any one of them can be a mutant, just by chance. It can't be controlled, it can't be predicted, it can't be stopped. It's a different set of defying the odds: 99,999 times out of 100,000, being exposed to massive doses of cosmic radiation is going to be lethal. It's that one freak occurrence that grants powers. But any of those million babies born today could have won the genetic lottery, and there's no way of knowing which until it's too late. To make matters worse, they are told by scientific experts and mutant terrorists that mutants will replace humanity; it's only a matter of time.

Well, this has probably gone on too long already, so we'll leave it at: Marvel mutants are the subject off irrational hatred and fear because humans as a whole are susceptible to hating and fearing things that are different, and the hatred and bigotry are fueled by the mass media.

Of course, it's your game idea @Entropy, and if you want to skip it, go right ahead.

[Coin]

@Runescryer said:

@Entropy

I think that the issue you're having is in trying to discover the logic and reason behind things that are the antithesis: bigotry and prejudice. one of the reasons that the old Star Trek episode 'Let That Be Your Last Battlefield' is so powerful is that is shows just how stupid, blind, and unreasoning bigotry is.

Before I start getting into things, let me say that while I talk here about serious and tragic real-world examples, I'm not comparing them to the fictional Marvel Universe and the mutant situation to cheapen or lessen the severity of what has happened and what is going on. I'm simply showing how mass media hysteria fuels similar behavior in the real world.

Now, with that said, there are some things to consider as to why such anti-mutant bias exists in the Marvel Universe.

1. It's not always the mutants that are the 'enemy'. You mentioned Hulk as an example of a metahuman that causes destruction, but Hulk doesn't get a free pass because he's not a mutant. On the contrary, for most of his existence, Hulk is feared as much or more than the 'mutant threat' by the general populace. Even Spider-Man has to deal with mistrust and a bit of hatred from the general public sometimes thanks to JJJ. So there's not a 'mutants always bad, other heroes always good' mentality. The perception of the general public towards an individual or group is the main factor.Which leads to...

2. Presence in the media. For most of their existence, the X-Men had no media presence. There was never any mentions of them existing, much less there being a group of heroic mutants. Professor Xavier, for good or bad, decided to keep the existence of the X-Men a complete secret in order to keep the school safe. So, the first time the general public ever heard the term 'mutant' was when Magneto and the Brotherhood of Mutants first took over a US military base and began making public demands, back in X-Men #1. Even though the X-Men saved the day, Xavier kept all mention of the team out of the press. All anyone knew was that there were these people called mutants who almost started a nuclear war; there was no knowledge that it was mutants who stopped the threat also, just some costumed folks, could have been the Avengers or Fantastic Four. That's something very powerful when the only mention of an ethnic group comes in conjunction with terrorism and near-global annihilation. And it wasn't just in the US. Magneto publicly captures a Russian nuclear sub and steals its missiles, placing them in orbit. No word in the press as to who stopped him. A mutant goes on a rampage in Edinburgh, killing a prominent politician (the first Proteus storyline). Again, no mention as to who stopped the killer mutant. And on, and on. The first time that mutants got any good press or publicity in the minds of the average citizens of the Marvel Universe was in the mid-80's when the X-Men publicly sacrificed their lives to save the city of Dallas from annihilation (leading to their rebirth and hidden years in Australia in the late 80's/90's). Up until then, it was nothing but politicians and talking heads holding up Magneto as the sterotypical mutant with no public counter from the good guys other than Xavier, who everyone thought was human, talking about morality and how genetics don't define someone as good or bad. A very hard sell when you have Magneto, Mystique, and the Brotherhood acting in public as terrorists for the 'mutant cause'. Think about the first time you heard the term 'Muslim' or 'Palestinian'. If you're a child of the 70's and 80's like me, chances are good it was in connection with some form of terrorist act. And that's how you start thinking of them because that's how the media only ever shows them. Later on, of course, you learn that things are not exactly that clear cut or simple; that much of the news we get is condensed for easy 'understanding'. One only needs to look at the wave of Islamophobia washing over us to see the mirror of how the media portrays mutants in the Marvel Universe. There are horrific, barbaric acts being carried out in the name of Islam, and the general public wonders why the moderate Muslims don't speak out. The reality is that they do speak out, as loudly as they can each time, but such things aren't shown by the news media because there's no ratings in it. So, in a great twit of irony, Xavier enforcing a silence surrounding the existence of the X-Men actually fuels the anti-mutant hysteria.

3. It's about the children. Mutant powers emerge in adolescence, when parents are still protective, sometimes overprotective, of their children. When Trayvon Martin was killed, millions of African-American parents saw their own children facing that fate. Parents in the Marvel Universe face something similar in having fear and paranoia of their children suddenly gaining powers or turning into something 'other'. There's a certain 'there but for the grace of God go I' sort of mentality when the news talks about some kid suddenly manifesting powers and nuking a school. Or a mob throwing stones at a child who now has lizard-like features. It's another way the media fuels the paranoia and fear, when every instance you see of mutant powers manifesting on the nightly news is either a monster being unleashed or a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Even if the truth is that the majority of mutant activations happen quietly with no visible side effects, all the media reports about, much less knows about, is 'Lizard Boy terrorizes classmates, film at 11'. With the constant barrage, Marvel Universe parents start worrying about their children becoming 'freaks'. Parents already freak out about normal teenage surliness and rebellion, wondering if drugs are the cause of the change in their sweet child's attitude. Now it's "Johnny just told me to shut up and that i don't understand him....Is he becoming a mutant?" Parents do stupid things and jump to stupid conclusions when they can't understand what's going on with their kids, or forget what they were like when they were that age. Wild, outlandish theories become plausible. I lived through the 'Satanic Panic' of the 80's, when heavy metal music was a path straight to the Devil, never minding the fact that my grandparents' generation had already labeled Elvis and the Beatles as Devil's music during my parent's generation. And let's not even go into Role Playing Games. While it seems counter-intuitive, the sad fact is that desperate and confused parents often do things that harm their children when faced with situations and behaviors beyond their understanding. Children sent to rehabilitation centers that employ torture and brainwashing techniques to cure all sorts of 'behaviors' are all too frighteningly common in the real world, and I have no doubt that the parents that send their child to one of those facilities truly loves them and is trying to do what's best for them in their own minds.

4. It's about the fear of extinction. Most people understand the concept of evolution. And they understand the idea that at one point, Neanderthals were out evolved by Cro-Magnons and became extinct. Now, here come mutants which are the next step in evolution and humanity sees the fate of the Neanderthal as it's own fate. It also down't help that in terms of origin, mutants outnumber other metahumans by a significant margin; at a high point, I think there were an estimated 15,000 mutants worldwide compared to a few thousand of all other metahumans. And then there's predictions on the news like 'the last human will be born in 2025, all children born from then on will be mutants', or whatever the storyline in Marvel was. Marvel citizens aren't afraid of being replaced by metahumans because most everyone knows that it's kind of a pain in the ass to become a metahuman in general. Exposure to radiation, take part in a secret government program, build yourself a suit of high-tech armor, be born an extra-dimensional god...these are no everyday occurrences. But there are millions of babies being born every day. And any one of them can be a mutant, just by chance. It can't be controlled, it can't be predicted, it can't be stopped. It's a different set of defying the odds: 99,999 times out of 100,000, being exposed to massive doses of cosmic radiation is going to be lethal. It's that one freak occurrence that grants powers. But any of those million babies born today could have won the genetic lottery, and there's no way of knowing which until it's too late. To make matters worse, they are told by scientific experts and mutant terrorists that mutants will replace humanity; it's only a matter of time.

Well, this has probably gone on too long already, so we'll leave it at: Marvel mutants are the subject off irrational hatred and fear because humans as a whole are susceptible to hating and fearing things that are different, and the hatred and bigotry are fueled by the mass media.

Of course, it's your game idea @Entropy, and if you want to skip it, go right ahead.

That was a really good explanation of how mutants are an adequate (if often misused) analogy for minorities.

[Ghost]

@Entropy said:

You know, speaking of X-Men, that actually brings up something I want to look at with this game. The theme of X-Men is this big civil rights issue, with Professor X acting as MLK, and Magneto being a stand in for Malcolm X. But... in a world where you have Thunder Gods beating up on rock aliens and guys who can create magical power armor and manipulate the threads of reality itself... why on earth does anyone have this big major prejudice against this one particular subset of people who have powers? Functionally, to the standard person on the street, what would really be the difference between Cyclops and the Hulk? They're both people with unnatural abilities that could wreck your day... and your city, within a matter of seconds.

Does anyone else ever feel like the theme of the X-Men stretches the suspension of disbelief too much? It'd be perfect if they existed in a world by themselves, like the movies, but in the context of the marvel universe at large, or in the case of most comic based MUs, an integrated universe, how does one really reconcile that?

I always did find it strange that, in the X-Men, normal humans lost their shit about mutants SO MUCH that terrorism broke out, but when it came to She Hulk and Thor, the American public seemed to be totally cool with it.

"A Norse God who can call down lightning? Cool."
"A super strong green skinned defense attorney? Alright."
"An orange guy made of rock who does science? Cool."
"A 16 year old who walks through walls that has the X-Gene? Waaaait a second, there..."

[Coin]

@Ghost

"A person with black skin? Yeah, okay."
"A person who listens to heavy metal? Sure."
"A pair of girls who like to lick each other? Oh, yeeeeeah."
"Two dudes who want to get married? Burn the faggots."

(Feel free to switch this to people who are okay with gays but hate black people, or any other combination. I picked at random.)

Bigotry, as @Runescryer very aptly pointed out above, is twisted and doesn't follow conventional logic.

[tragedyjones]

I cannot write a ton of words on this from my phone, but, after the excellent posts on mutants and bigotry, I think @Entropy needs to make a choice if his world is going to lean more DC or more Marvel. As the amazing JLA/Avengers pointed out, the worlds are similar but have fundamental differences of theme and mood. Both have large variety, but on average, DC is more utopian than Marvel, which always held to a core of human cynicism. And you need to make a choice.

And you need to get me pictures of Spider-Man!!

[tragedyjones]

Doublepost but hey, the main reason the Fantastic Four were generally loved and not feared was from day one Reed Richards played to the media, turning them into celebrities. Basically the opposite of the X-Men or Spider-Man.

[Ghost]

Being constructive here.

I've played on a few Super Hero MU* that have allowed DC/MARVEL/Image/etc all in one place. My personal feeling on this is that "all comic titles under one roof" allows for some interesting RP, but it's also very uncomfortable in the sense that there's only so much room.

For example.

• The JLA and Avengers, why need both? Why would the government sponsor an Avengers program, a JLA, and their many splinter groups, AND S.H.I.E.LD., etc etc etc.
• Nova Corps and Green Lanterns. Why two universe-spanning police groups?
• Mutants or Metas, and how do you take DC's handling of one versus Marvel's handling of the other?

Every time I stepped foot on one of these games, there was this long period of learning curve that was a bit unwieldy for me. Batman on the Avengers? Okay, cool, but who sponsors the Justice League AND the Avengers? Both groups exist? Why not just one? Captain America is Justice League? What about his back history with SHIELD and Peggy Carter in WW2? Does this mean Howard Stark and Peggy Carter didn't help form SHIELD? If that timeline changed, why does SHIELD exist, and if Captain America never became an Avenger, which he was the first, how did this change?

Headache

[Miss Demeanor]

Don't forget the Watchers. They don't always ACT.. but they're always there.

[tragedyjones]

@Ghost said:

Being constructive here.

I've played on a few Super Hero MU* that have allowed DC/MARVEL/Image/etc all in one place. My personal feeling on this is that "all comic titles under one roof" allows for some interesting RP, but it's also very uncomfortable in the sense that there's only so much room.

For example.

• The JLA and Avengers, why need both? Why would the government sponsor an Avengers program, a JLA, and their many splinter groups, AND S.H.I.E.LD., etc etc etc.
• Nova Corps and Green Lanterns. Why two universe-spanning police groups?
• Mutants or Metas, and how do you take DC's handling of one versus Marvel's handling of the other?

Every time I stepped foot on one of these games, there was this long period of learning curve that was a bit unwieldy for me. Batman on the Avengers? Okay, cool, but who sponsors the Justice League AND the Avengers? Both groups exist? Why not just one? Captain America is Justice League? What about his back history with SHIELD and Peggy Carter in WW2? Does this mean Howard Stark and Peggy Carter didn't help form SHIELD? If that timeline changed, why does SHIELD exist, and if Captain America never became an Avenger, which he was the first, how did this change?

Headache

As for why both can exit, even government sponsored, well, there are over 70 Federal Law Enforcement agencies in the US in reality. They have a lot of them, maybe the JLA is backed by the DOJ while the DHS supports The Avengers?

Also, Captain America wasn't a founding member of te Avengers traditiknally, but made one through consent of the actual founders.

[Coin]

@Ghost said:

Being constructive here.

I've played on a few Super Hero MU* that have allowed DC/MARVEL/Image/etc all in one place. My personal feeling on this is that "all comic titles under one roof" allows for some interesting RP, but it's also very uncomfortable in the sense that there's only so much room.

For example.

• The JLA and Avengers, why need both? Why would the government sponsor an Avengers program, a JLA, and their many splinter groups, AND S.H.I.E.LD., etc etc etc.
• Nova Corps and Green Lanterns. Why two universe-spanning police groups?
• undefined

For the former, usually the super teams get redefined by the players and mixed and matched. You'll get a team called The Avengers who might not resemble the actual Avengers at all, while you'll get a Justice League that is founded and led by Captain America.

This is also a silly question for you to get hung up on considering the sheer fucking amount of super teams in either universe. Hell, right now (and in the past) there have been multiple versions of the Avengers and the Justice League... (Justice League, Justice League America, Justice League International, Avengers, West Coast Avengers, etc.). There's plenty of room, especially if you set them in different cities.

The Nova Corps and the Green Lantern could operate easily with jurisdictional changes--the same way the county Sheriff has jurisdiction over a county, but the state police over a whole state, while a city's police only within their assigned city, etc., etc.

Meta and Mutants is easy--are you born with your power through a genetic anomaly? It's the x-gene, even if you're not from marvel. You're a mutant. Did you get your powers some other way? Meta--catch-all term for becoming super-powered via something else. Same thing that happens when you compare Mutants (X-Men) and Mutates (Spider-Man, Daredevil) in Marvel, for example.

All of these issues are easily resolved, really. It's purist comic book nerds that whine that they don't like a specific thing that make it an issue (like the person who finds it unacceptable that quicksilver's mutation allows him to tap into the Speed Force as a way to incorporate him into the Flash mythology in case a player wants to--what, more roleplay opportunities is a bad thing? Get the fuck over it).

And honestly, I find all the changes and learning them and adapting to them part of the fun, to be honest.

[Ghost]

@Coin Oh, I'm not being a stickler about it and saying it's not possible to rewrite the super teams so they make sense in the new setting. It's good that it's done. All I was saying is that there's this initial learning curve to learn, or in some cases unlearn comic canon, which usually leads to a lot of reading. I, personally, have always found that process (say...over 3-4 games?) to be a bit tedious. Sometimes it's very interesting to see what the game came up with for the changes, but it also threw me off on who I wanted to app. I needed to research whether or not they had any changed history first to properly app the updated character to fit in new canon.

True story: Once I joined a SuperHero game and saw that one of my favorites, Nova, was idled about 6 months prior and free for application. So I apped and got Nova. The moment I hit the grid, I started getting hit up by the previous player of Nova's IC boyfriends who wanted to resume the gay TS...so I had to kind of figure out how to explain while after a who bunch of referenced homosexuality that I missed in the logs on the wiki, why Nova was no longer banging boys. Awwwwkward.

[tragedyjones]

@Ghost Editorial mandate

[Coin]

This is why I want to make a comic book MU based on Exiles but with more than one company (and also combinations of them, both like we currently have on games nad like Amalgam was). Because then you really can play whatever version of the character you want.

But then, I'm a dick--I wouldn't allow any actual canon versions--they'd have to have some important departure (so as to stick to the spirit and theme of the Exiles).