Feelings of not being wanted...

Cirno

@VulgarKitten said:

@Thenomain said:

You are not contracted, obligated, or otherwise forced to do so, but if you include people in your character's play-space, you will become more popular and you will enhance that person's experience knowing that they will do the same for you.

This is such a lie. I cannot count how many times I have experienced/heard from others "Well I invite you to all of my stuff, but you don't invite me to yours."

One of the things I'm finding lately is that I am pulling back from my usual hyperbolic ways, only to realize why I was that way to begin with: The number of times people take what I'm saying to some theoretical logical conclusion.

Making space for people is not bending backwards for them. Nobody who asks you to be a doormat has your interests in mind, and you should take no shit from them.

If you are turning yourself into a doormat, you are trying too hard. Relax. Chill. Take no shit from yourself.

MUSHing is an inherently selfish experience, where 9 and 3/4 times out of 10, people will take what they can get while excluding others who give them RP/plot for justifications x, y, and z. Maybe they're even legit justifications. But not usually.

Which is why I think that not doing this should be a requirement. Fuck these selfish people. Fuck them right in the ear. If people cannot share their play-space, they have no right to mine.

But you have no control over them. You have control over you. The only thing you can do to help the game is make the attempt, to give other people a chance to fail on their own actions and not because of your preconceived notions.

If you can't be bothered, even with the smallest amount of effort, to try to include people who are in your scenes, then you're part of the problem. It's these people who need a punch in the cloaca with a dagger and tossed out the airlock.

--

This is an extension of a discussion that began long, long ago on Swofa, I believe by TNP or PsyJack that was this: We are the source of many of the problems we complain about.

If this is true, then we need to think differently about what we do, change how we do it. I don't admit to massive failure because I'm trying to score humility brownie points with anyone, I'm doing it because we all need to take a more adult view of the problems.

Having a place to vent is nice, but who is trying to solve the problems? (Yes, several of you are. Cookies to each of you.)

So, basically, you're saying that we can start to solve our problems by taking a good look in the mirror, and saying, "Fuck...you" (to ourselves)?

Your wisdom is nearly Taoist in nature. Have you been reading Laozi's Tao Te Ching?

Edit:

Honestly, I can see where you're coming from because 75% of the time I lash out at people, I'm really lashing out at myself because I am angry at myself.

Thenomain

Well I do think that looking at the situations more objectively is critical, and you can't do that if you can't accept your own involvement in them. People on channel do this, I hate it when people do that. Words and terms that create distance between you and the thing that sucks.

I hate it when I offer to RP with someone and they say nothing or don't show, but why would I get upset about that? I hate it when someone wants me to run the scene for their masturbation, by why would I agree to that? I hate it when someone tries to run me off a game but maybe it's because something I did? Maybe I can page them and ask what's wrong. Such a small action that opens dialogue. Maybe they were afraid that I would explode at them with Theno-like spazztic behavior? Could I blame them? It's not my responsibility to set things right, but if I'm interested in things being right then aren't I morally obligated to try?

If I'm not interested in things being right, aren't I the passive lump you people have been complaining about? (Again, not all of you, but damn.)

How much we try is flexible, but the smallest iota of Givadamn is better than none. If everyone gave that small amount, it would feed into other people being more willing to try, and fewer people feeling lonely.

thebird

I really think that a lot of drama and "feelings of not being wanted" on MU*s can be mitigated simply by not assuming things, and adulting enough to speak to each other. Instead of sitting around and taking gossip at face value, or assuming something typed was meant offensively, someone is ignoring you for some epic reason when really they were just afk, etc.

I tend to read in to things too much, and one of my best friends gets grumpy and such, and we agreed early on to just talk, rather than sitting and moping/getting mad about whatever.

Point is, communication is key - online, real life, everything. Easier said than done sometimes, but still...

(I got through a whole post without forgetting my point! Yay! =D )

Apos

@Thenomain I'm not sure if I fully agree. I think there's sometimes blending when selfishness and protective elitism are being confused. I'd more say that I'm obligated to try to make the friendliest, most fun rp environment as I can for as many people as I can, and make a good faith effort for everyone that I meet. But past that, there's some personalities that I think I know I just don't have the ability to pull back from the brink, and trying so would have a very real cost in terms of the happiness of other people. I'm no fan of exclusivity, but if a player includes someone that's actively toxic and just wrecks the environment, that does no help to anyone- probably not even the person that was included.

Pondscum

@Thenomain bring back the pipe, dammit. I'm used to the pipe. Cute Charlie Brown lookie-likey is throwing me off kilter.

Cirno

@Pondscum said:

@Thenomain bring back the pipe, dammit. I'm used to the pipe. Cute Charlie Brown lookie-likey is throwing me off kilter.

It's supposed to be Thenomain if he were a Charlie Brown character.

Personally, I like it because it's like looking at Thenomain's true face. And when you look into someone's true face, you can see into their heart, and your heart and their heart become as one.

Three-Eyed Crow

@thebird said:

I really think that a lot of drama and "feelings of not being wanted" on MU*s can be mitigated simply by not assuming things, and adulting enough to speak to each other. Instead of sitting around and taking gossip at face value, or assuming something typed was meant offensively, someone is ignoring you for some epic reason when really they were just afk, etc.

Most people don't think about you nearly as much as you think they do.

This was probably my biggest revelation when I hit my thirties and it's so incredibly freeing.

Ghost

@thebird said:

I really think that a lot of drama and "feelings of not being wanted" on MU*s can be mitigated simply by not assuming things, and adulting enough to speak to each other. Instead of sitting around and taking gossip at face value, or assuming something typed was meant offensively, someone is ignoring you for some epic reason when really they were just afk, etc.

I tend to read in to things too much, and one of my best friends gets grumpy and such, and we agreed early on to just talk, rather than sitting and moping/getting mad about whatever.

Point is, communication is key - online, real life, everything. Easier said than done sometimes, but still...

(I got through a whole post without forgetting my point! Yay! =D )

I perceive this to be a huge part of the problem.

I would say half of the people I've mushed with, or at least a third, ask me something like: "Hey, did you play <insert name> on <inset game>, because your poses seem familiar." And then when I explain I'm not that person, its: "Okay good, because I swore I'd never RP with that person ever again, he did this and this and this and this and he's horrible."

The amount of energy I've seen some players donate trying to read between the lines on what someone's OOC identity, OOC motives, OOC wants seems staggering to me, to the point that it always seems hard to distinguish the player from the character, because the player is so god-damned busy fretting about the OOC aspect. WHAT people think of them. WHO this new person is and whether or not they played Bumblefuck on JackdogMu. WHAT the player means when they decide this or that IC and whether or not it's OOC motivated.

There's this old saying that goes "when you point a finger, you point three fingers back at yourself", and when it comes to a lot of this OOC paranoia or trying to " game the game", these people are accusing people of doing to them the things they are constantly doing to others.

Apos

@Ghost said:

I perceive this to be a huge part of the problem.

I would say half of the people I've mushed with, or at least a third, ask me something like: "Hey, did you play <insert name> on <inset game>, because your poses seem familiar." And then when I explain I'm not that person, its: "Okay good, because I swore I'd never RP with that person ever again, he did this and this and this and this and he's horrible."

Holy shit, really? I have literally never had that happen to me in all my years online. At least not in a roleplaying context. I would have been shocked that happened at all, let alone something that comes up often.

Arkandel

@Apos I've had someone tell me my RP style was close to someone who had stalked them, and although it wasn't likely I was that person, they couldn't take the chance I might be.

So yeah, I guess it happens.

P.S. I wasn't!

Cirno

Check out the "Games That Died For You" thread to see someone accusing me of being a character I was not in real time!

Sovereign

@Apos

You probably see it more in WoD games because WoD players are the worst.

Ghost

@Apos said:

@Ghost said:

I perceive this to be a huge part of the problem.

I would say half of the people I've mushed with, or at least a third, ask me something like: "Hey, did you play <insert name> on <inset game>, because your poses seem familiar." And then when I explain I'm not that person, its: "Okay good, because I swore I'd never RP with that person ever again, he did this and this and this and this and he's horrible."

Holy shit, really? I have literally never had that happen to me in all my years online. At least not in a roleplaying context. I would have been shocked that happened at all, let alone something that comes up often.

I had a female player I wasn't roleplaying with reach out to me on behalf of a female roleplayer I was currently roleplaying with, just to make sure I hadn't lied to the current girl when I told her I wasn't this horrible demon rper she was trying to avoid. I really should have seen the red flag then. Both girls turned out to be kind of batshit.

I also know a girl who thoroughly tries to research who is OOCly who on a mush (including wiki stalking) before playing. Even if she is not able to prove X is EvilBobRPer, she will still make a character, but then avoid X just in case...and then when she starts to feel ignored, partially believes it is because people have carried a dislike of her to every game. So she only tries to RP with a core group of people to avoid all of this, but has to try to integrate into game communities.

Shit, fifteen+ years, I've seen and been in the center of a lot of weird shit.

EDIT: And yes, after currentGirl and anonymousGirl vetted that I wasn't lying about not being EvilBobRPer, they both paged me in unison to apologize for the deception, but that everything was great now and they really liked me!

Apos

@Ghost I would have been extremely concerned by their liking you.

Ghost

@Apos at the time, being liked felt great. Lol

Sovereign

EDIT: And yes, after currentGirl and anonymousGirl vetted that I wasn't lying about not being EvilBobRPer, they both paged me in unison to apologize for the deception, but that everything was great now and they really liked me!

This is the point where you smile, thank them, and then make every effort to never engage with the two psycho ladies again in any capacity.

Ghost

@Sovereign TBH I think my logical response, at the time, was Jesus what kind of shit did this guy pull?!? It was weird, yeah, and a large part of me wanted to tell them look, I'm an adult, if I said I'm not the guy, I'm not the guy, knock it off, but you know people. Being blunt sometimes quickly turns into OMGURTHEWORST, and I really wanted to RP at the time.

The whole situation came to an end about 3 or so months later when the currentGirl player started to harass me and detail how I was damaging her depression diagnosis because I wasn't doing what she wanted. I then told her, nicely, that I was gonna take a break from rping with her, which she then took to staff about how I was trying to wreck her RP experience.

Guess what? I am probably now either believed to have been lying about being EvilBobRPer, or I am now EvilBob2.

She's the reason for my quote line about ruining your life that one week on a Mu.

Sovereign

@Ghost

I have enough first and second hand accounts of stories like this that I no longer believe any horror stories anyone tells me about anyone. Oh, I will politely pretend to believe you, and sympathize, but in my heart of hearts I'm wondering what your damage is. So if anyone ever tells me about how shitty EvilBobOne is, I will nod, smile, and think "crazy alert, crazy alert, wee-ooo-wee-ooo"

Cirno

@Sovereign said:

@Ghost

I have enough first and second hand accounts of stories like this that I no longer believe any horror stories anyone tells me about anyone. Oh, I will politely pretend to believe you, and sympathize, but in my heart of hearts I'm wondering what your damage is. So if anyone ever tells me about how shitty EvilBobOne is, I will nod, smile, and think "crazy alert, crazy alert, wee-ooo-wee-ooo"

Up until you go to jail, or the hood, and somebody tells you, "Ayo, don't fuck with that D-money nigga, he gonna stab your ass."

And then you ignore them, and, well, that's how people get stabbed.

Sovereign

@Cirno

I somehow don't think either of those situations are going to come up within my life.