Coming in 2016 - Bump in the Night
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I have a PC that can go to anyone at any time just about (purposefully created to be that way). Even Hunters need a jump start/have a crappy day/might have gotten their car towed. Now, if you're looking for bang bang shoot 'em up play that's super deep and revealing the mysteries of the soul in the first scene--probably I can't help there. Or if you only want to play with a certain type of PC. (Hey, that is all legit IMO).
I'm tossing out an open invite though to RP with me. Don't care who you are/what kind of PC you have. Maybe we'll click, maybe we won't--but if I can possibly RP (and because of comments here and elsewhere I've tried to avoid logging in anywhere to just hang out lest I contribute to the crickets problem) then I will--and I can come up with several scenarios for those challenged to do so.
Toni@BITN.
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I totally agree on having open IC hangouts. Though I do think that people need to remember that there's a variety of "cultures" when it comes to joining a scene in a public place. I had my ass handed to me once when I showed up at a public coffeehouse (I did not see that anyone was in there actually) because I dared come in there when other people had started to RP before I did (and I didn't have a chance to oocly say hey there, can I join before getting yelled at). It shocked me, because I'd always come from a culture that if someone doesn't want people wandering into a public gridspace then it's on them to leave to a private room; but obviously other people come from the opposite! So even if you have visible hangouts, some folks may feel like they can't go there if there's already people there because that would be rude--or people who assume that they're always welcome in a clearly marked Come Hang Out Here place may get a 'welcome' that kind of shoves them away from wanting to risk it at all.
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@Kanye-Qwest said:
Which might make you ask why I'd want to play these games, and the answer is I love modern supernatural/horror settings.
See, this is your first mistake. WoD is not (nor, really, has it ever been) a modern supernatural-horror setting. Supernatural, yes. All the elements of horror, yes. Imagine, if you will, "Final Exit: The MMO" and you'll get an idea how most horror is going to end up when you throw 20+ persistent logins at it.
This also turns most of your complaints into, "this isn't what I hoped it would be" with a side of "I don't know what to expect". It makes me doubt your flowchart as a serious addition to the discussion but instead take it as a tongue-in-cheek consolation.
Nothing bad with these things, incidentally, just as long as we're all on the same page here.
(I typed this out before seeing @Derp's reply. Yeah, what he said.)
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@mietze said:
It shocked me, because I'd always come from a culture that if someone doesn't want people wandering into a public gridspace then it's on them to leave to a private room; but obviously other people come from the opposite!
Sometimes people get into very personal scenes in public places. When this happens, I try to remember to go to a +temproom, but it's not always something you think of until someone else shows up and you have to give an awkward explanation of why the people already in the scene wouldn't be happy with a random addition.
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@Sammi I feel that, but honestly--I think that's when you politely say "Oh oops, sorry, but we should have moved to a RP room, we will now, hope to catch you later!" and then do so, not bitch out the other player immediately for daring to enter a public space that's labeled as a hangout for anyone to RP at.
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That's what I do, anyway. Some people aren't so good at dealing civilly with things that embarrass them. They need to make it not their fault, so they try to be aggressive enough to put the other person on the defensive.
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@mietze said:
I totally agree on having open IC hangouts. Though I do think that people need to remember that there's a variety of "cultures" when it comes to joining a scene in a public place. I had my ass handed to me once when I showed up at a public coffeehouse (I did not see that anyone was in there actually) because I dared come in there when other people had started to RP before I did (and I didn't have a chance to oocly say hey there, can I join before getting yelled at). It shocked me, because I'd always come from a culture that if someone doesn't want people wandering into a public gridspace then it's on them to leave to a private room; but obviously other people come from the opposite! So even if you have visible hangouts, some folks may feel like they can't go there if there's already people there because that would be rude--or people who assume that they're always welcome in a clearly marked Come Hang Out Here place may get a 'welcome' that kind of shoves them away from wanting to risk it at all.
I also came up largely on games where Public Room=Public Scene, and I always found these super-intimate scenes that took place in random bars and coffee shops super-awkward. In a way, it was worse when the players involved did gymnastics to include me than if they bitched, because I still couldn't integrate properly and they turned their intimate scene into a surface-y 'Hi there!' thing that wasn't fun for anybody.
I find I kind of prefer games where the culture is just to ask before joining anything. The one thing I haven't quite figured out is how to get regular 3-4 person scenes that are often some of my favorite types of random RP.
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@mietze If someone is in a public room, I'll join if I feel like it. I guess I'm from your culture; if anyone wants a private scene its on them to go to a private location to have it. If a public scene becomes a private scene, take it into a temproom at that point. Its okay if they forgot, but then its still on them to politely explain it and then depart. I find it pretty rude to claim ownership of public hangouts by excluding others. That's not how it's supposed to work.
I've only come across the sort of situation you describe once, and I was pretty blunt about what I thought it.
ETA: I feel I should add that I don't think just because I drop into a public scene, they are required to interact with me on my terms. Perhaps they're at a table and its pretty clear they're talking low voices and they don't want anything to do with my character. I can chalk that up to bad timing, make a post or two, then disappear.
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That could be part of the disconnect too, if people think they are expected to somehow IC include the other people in the public room. If I come into an open scene, then honestly, I've always felt it was on ME to figure out some way to connect with the others, if I wanted to and felt like it would be appropriate, rather than them having to figure out how to include the newcomer.
By the same token, I'll often try to include wallflowers or incoming people if I'm in a public place and they seem to want to be there. But that's a personal preference, never an expectation, and I don't expect the same in return!
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@Sammi peers I have to wonder if this is the Sammi I remember from years back and if so, HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII! Come pester me on BITN!
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@mietze and @lordbelh absolutely nail it for me, too. That is, IMHO, the most healthy example of how I feel things 'should' be, too.
I'll ask sometimes if I see a group at a public location if they wouldn't mind one more -- but usually this is when it's a case of 'huge group, might already be very unwieldy', or 'two people present, they may want a private moment'. I don't feel obligated to do so, but I tend to anyway in those circumstances, just in case.
I always figure it never hurts to be polite from any position in that situation, but I don't expect others to do the same. It's appreciated if they do, since I take it as a sign of politeness and respect for fellow players, but I don't consider NOT asking in advance to be a sign of the absence of those things at all. It's something I think of as an extra bit, not something I feel should ever be considered an obligation.
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I always page before crashing a scene. This obviously doesn't apply to @mietze's anecdote, since she didn't know anyone was in there. The only times I don't are if someone invites me, if it's friends OOC and IC and it's a common space (and they're people who don't mind telling me to fuck off) or... if it's my character's home/place of business. If it's that last one, well... I'm gonna be there whether you like it or not.
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This is what I mean by organic. If two characters are in a public place, having a public scene, anyone there can join, or comment on what's going on, whatever. Just like in real life, there are rude and polite ways to insert yourself in a conversation/situation.
Also just like in life (I prefer RP that strives for some level of realism in interpersonal interaction) if you are in a public place and a discussion suddenly turns private, you don't teleport to a broom closet or carry on like you're IN a broom closet, getting angry at those who intrude. You get up, make an excuse, and leave. Or delay the Omg Private moment until later.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't like paging people to ask if it's ok to join them, and I don't like the ooc room discussion that devolves into "oh so sorry! Smileyface smileyface smileyface." and "I'll just ignore this and we'll time stop and pretend we never came in here and you didn't see us ok?" I don't mind a quick ooc 'cool to join in?' just for the sake of being polite, but I think if you are in an IC hangout and you are roleplaying, that's a public scene and anyone can participate.
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@Kanye-Qwest said:
This is what I mean by organic. If two characters are in a public place, having a public scene, anyone there can join, or comment on what's going on, whatever. Just like in real life, there are rude and polite ways to insert yourself in a conversation/situation.
Also just like in life (I prefer RP that strives for some level of realism in interpersonal interaction) if you are in a public place and a discussion suddenly turns private, you don't teleport to a broom closet or carry on like you're IN a broom closet, getting angry at those who intrude. You get up, make an excuse, and leave. Or delay the Omg Private moment until later.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't like paging people to ask if it's ok to join them, and I don't like the ooc room discussion that devolves into "oh so sorry! Smileyface smileyface smileyface." and "I'll just ignore this and we'll time stop and pretend we never came in here and you didn't see us ok?" I don't mind a quick ooc 'cool to join in?' just for the sake of being polite, but I think if you are in an IC hangout and you are roleplaying, that's a public scene and anyone can participate.
The thing about this is that you don't seem open to compromise.
You don't like paging people to ask if you can join them, but you also don't like people getting up and walking out if you join a scene that had, previously, turned quite private and that they evidently don't feel like including someone else--potentially a stranger--in. The dynamic flow of the narrative is important to consider, too. Sometimes the scene loses its spark if a person has to deal with someone else interceding, and to me that's more important than your desire for "realism".
Asking if you can join is a compromise: you're reminding them they're in public, but you're respecting their scene and their roleplay.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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I am all for people getting up and leaving a public place if they want to go have a private scene, I just don't see why it can't be handled IC.
And you're right, it can definitely interrupt the vibe of a conversation to include the jackass who just walked in and started eating off the floor. In which case, cast the jackass a disdaining glance and ignore them like the nuisance they are. Just again, do it IC.
All manner of silly arguments about intentions and ooc tone and on and on and on are avoided if you don't get into OOC discussions when it isn't necessary.
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@Kanye-Qwest said:
I am all for people getting up and leaving a public place if they want to go have a private scene, I just don't see why it can't be handled IC.
And you're right, it can definitely interrupt the vibe of a conversation to include the jackass who just walked in and started eating off the floor. In which case, cast the jackass a disdaining glance and ignore them like the nuisance they are. Just again, do it IC.
All manner of silly arguments about intentions and ooc tone and on and on and on are avoided if you don't get into OOC discussions when it isn't necessary.
The problem is that they are necessary, from other people's point of view, and you're dismissing that because it doesn't conform to yours. It would be like me saying: "Yeah, well, I don't care about your need for realism, and you should always discuss things OOC with me first because that's what I enjoy and how I like it".
Predictable outcome: we don't RP together. Except your way makes me have to deal with you dropping into my scene because you felt like it.
See what I mean when I say you don't show signs of compromise?
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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You think it is necessary for people to ask your permission to rp around/at you in public, and I'm uncompromising?
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@Kanye-Qwest said:
You think it is necessary for people to ask your permission to rp around/at you in public, and I'm uncompromising?
Actually, I was referring to:
if you don't get into OOC discussions when it isn't necessary.
Because what is and isn't necessary isn't solely within your purview of preference.
I might not prefer you just drop in on my scene. You would rather be able to drop in on any scene. You asking if it's okay to drop in on my scene is a compromise, because it's a middle ground between two preferences. I can deal with you paging me and going, "Hey, can I drop in?" And more often than not, I'd probably say yes. You, apparently, can't deal with asking a question OOC because it infringes on your desire for realism... I guess.
In before: "better to ask forgiveness than permission"--this is a stupid addage worthy only of people who are going to give shallow apologies for doing whatever they want without regards for consequences and/or people who procrastinated so much that they knew if they asked first they may get in as much, if not more, trouble than if it's wrong.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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The problem isn't entering a room. The issue is joining a scene.
You can have incredibly private scenes at public locations - it happens every day. You go to a cafe and there's that couple in the corner engaged in whispers that could be about anything - a chat between lovers, a discussion about her sick kid, career talk, a breakup, a blackmail situation.
On a MUSH that is quite easily accommodated through +places - you could go to that pub and never see one pose from the scene taking place between the people who were already there. So what you are really asking for (or should) in advance is whether they're okay with you interacting with them, because they could just ignore you, or IC tell you they're having a private conversation, sorry.
These are games and we all need to compromise to some extent. Being PCs we often give each other's characters special consideration than strangers would get, are more open to striking up a chat or giving up a hook to start talking to each other, etc. But that has to remain voluntary - the price of collaboration is that sometimes you get told 'no', and it has to be paid in good faith.
