Good TV

[Glitch]

Is two days really necromancy? Isn't that more like necromancer in training? Or just this side of Addam's family?

[Arkandel]

[Misadventure]

Dead threads don't say no.

[Arkandel]

So I don't know what makes Daredevil different than other superhero TV shows (with the possible exception of Jessica Jones - another Netflix show) but it just seems... bigger than the others, more focused and character-driven. I like it a lot more.

That's while comparing it to both series with a central protagonist (like say, Arrow or Flash) but also more assemble productions like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - it just seemed to have far more gravitas than others of its ilk. Maybe it's the pseudo non-episodic nature, that it didn't have any real filler episodes or monsters-of-the-week, but it just worked.

Even its villains were cooler, whom I won't spoil here by talking about, from their visuals to their complexity and interaction. Matt seemed constantly outmatched and struggling to keep it together in ways other shows which also had their protagonist beaten within an inch of his life - or beyond, I mean Ollie was stabbed through and thrown off a freakin' mountain - never got a similar emotional response from me. And Stick was great, his casting was perfect and every line he had was right for him.

I'm by no means claiming the show is perfect but something about the writing, acting and direction agreed with me quite thoroughly more than similar productions on TV. Do others feel the same way or is it just my own itch being scratched here?

[Roz]

@Arkandel Certainly the Marvel Netflix shows are the best superhero TV happening right now, but the nature of Netflix programming almost makes it seem like an entirely different medium. Like, they're really more like extended movies or miniseries. I imagine they also have much bigger budgets available to them.

Which isn't to say that someone probably couldn't make a similar type of show in a more traditional TV setting, or that you can't make TV of that quality outside of Netflix. Not at all; we're in a Golden Age of Television. But I do think that the various variables of Daredevil's situation allow it to be more focused and tell a more cohesive story. The closest equivalent on traditional TV, IMO, is Agent Carter: totally different tone and style, obviously, but the fact that it's a shorter season run means that it's a lot tighter and more focused and avoids the issues of filler.

[Kanye Qwest]

@Arkandel

It's weird that I would agree with you, but I would. I sort of watched Season 1 of Daredevil because I'd just binged Jessica Jones and was craving more. Season 1 had REALLY questionable dialogue. I hated Foggy. I was Karen-ambivalent. I liked Claire.

Season 2 brought an A game I was not expecting because of that. Character development and growth for everyone! Except maybe Matt, who is stubborn and misguided and flip flops harder than a bro squad in Miami. The storylines were comic-book ridiculous, which is a given, but the emotional responses seemed so real. And their treatment of the Punisher, I just can't say enough good things about him.

[Roz]

@Kanye-Qwest That's funny, because I think overall I liked S1 better. Fisk and Vanessa REALLY did it for me, and I had the opposite issue with Foggy and Karen in that I loved them with the fire of a thousand suns, along with Claire. S2 just confirmed that for me.

[Arkandel]

@Roz said:

@Arkandel Certainly the Marvel Netflix shows are the best superhero TV happening right now, but the nature of Netflix programming almost makes it seem like an entirely different medium. Like, they're really more like extended movies or miniseries. I imagine they also have much bigger budgets available to them.

But why? Let's break it down.

Budget - I'd say Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. probably uses way more special effects than Daredevil does. Most of its budget must be going to fight choreography, it's not like they need to depict people shooting lasers out of their eyes on a regular basis.

The format... I don't know why monster-of-the-week is still a thing - and I can't imagine I'd watch Daredevil less if its episodes were being released on the traditional weekly schedule, for example. Dedicated nerd tastes however might not apply to a regular viewer who might not tune in every single week... but I don't see it. It's not like ultra successful action-based shows like The Walking Dead don't rely on a very strong continuity (I won't mention more cerebral shows like Breaking Bad since we'd be comparing very different things).

Which isn't to say that someone probably couldn't make a similar type of show in a more traditional TV setting, or that you can't make TV of that quality outside of Netflix. Not at all; we're in a Golden Age of Television. But I do think that the various variables of Daredevil's situation allow it to be more focused and tell a more cohesive story. The closest equivalent on traditional TV, IMO, is Agent Carter: totally different tone and style, obviously, but the fact that it's a shorter season run means that it's a lot tighter and more focused and avoids the issues of filler.

I wonder if it's just that regular TV stations are still partially stuck on the customary model, the filler episodes... all of those trappings that perhaps aren't needed any more. Maybe in the 80s you needed self-contained stories where the main character beats up some bad guy of the week but after many shows succeeded on the strength of those cohesive stories you mention maybe there's been a paradigm shift while they weren't (?) looking.

Something else that offends my own sensibilities in superhero shows is when they try to promote spin-offs a bit too aggressively and in ways that don't fit the overall arc. For example Arrow and Flash got caught up for several weeks in their Legends of Tomorrow launch which derailed their regular direction. There were mentions of say, Jessica Jones in Daredevil (and vice versa) but they were subtle and not intrusive... they hinted at a wider world but it didn't feel like shameless promotion, you know?

[Kanye Qwest]

@Arkandel

They are cross-pollinating because they are planning a defenders series, which Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, etc have all been members of.

Also - hyped for the Luke Cage series.

@Roz

Yeah, Fisk/Vanessa were the thing I liked the most about season 1.

[Bobotron]

@Arkandel
Unfortunately regular TV more or less REQUIRES the push of the spin-off in some way on the regular TV show. Regular TV has to deal with viewership and ratings to account on whether a show will be worth the money to spin off into, whereas a Netflix series is front-loaded budget since it's done with different arrangements and expectations.

[Gingerlily]

I just thought it would be important to update everyone. Remember how I said I was excited about Vinyl and going to watch it and then watched the pilot and was like 'hmm, it has potential, I'll keep trying." I lied. I haven't seen any other episodes and forgot why I'd want to.

INSTEAD I spent my valuable TV time binging the entire series of Big Love again, so long as HBO has it sitting there for me. I regret nothing. Big Love forever.

[Jaded]

Finally got around to the Supergirl/Flash crossover ep. Really enjoyed it. Makes me curious why CBS hasn't announced a renewal of SG yet.

[lordbelh]

Black Sails nailed the season finale. I feel this is a show that's just gotten better and better. First season had some slow moments and uneven storytelling, but second really picked it up. Now third season's done and it's been brilliant. Long John Silver and Captain Flint are so damn awesome.

[Arkandel]

@lordbelh I've heard of that show but I've never watched or even seen a trailer for it. What's the TL;DR version of why it's awesome?

[lordbelh]

@Arkandel Pirates. C'MON ITS PIRATES!!!

But more seriously I love the characters and how they've developed form the first season to the third (especially Flint and Silver, but lesser characters too). The action is great, with some truly impressive moments of age of sails naval warfare, and there's some serious study of the dark side of the British Empire back then.

And hey, PIRATES!

[Coin]

@Arkandel said:

@lordbelh I've heard of that show but I've never watched or even seen a trailer for it. What's the TL;DR version of why it's awesome?

It's essentially a combination of the early 1700s piracy in the Caribbean, centered around the pirate kingdom of Nassau in the Bahamas, and a prequel to Treasure Island (i.e. how Long John Silver and Captain Flint meet and develop their relationship).

All of that, a la Starz, which is to say: sex, gore, action, betrayal, and tons of cursing.

[lordbelh]

Someone recommended the Night Manager mini-series to me. I plan on checking it out when I have some spare time. Since I haven't really been RPing for the last six+ months, the late nights before bed have been spent catching up on so much TV.

[Coin]

@lordbelh said:

Someone recommended the Night Manager mini-series to me. I plan on checking it out when I have some spare time. Since I haven't really been RPing for the last six+ months, the late nights before bed have been spent catching up on so much TV.

It's really good. Fair warning: the end is a bit abrupt for my tastes. But it's very good otherwise.

[lordbelh]

So GoT is back.

How about that Mellissandre, huh?

(And how flat is the Dorne story? I hated it last season, I still hate it now.)

[somasatori]

I'm kinda more looking forward to the third (and supposedly final) season of The Leftovers, because I enjoy having my heart torn out of my chest and held in front of me while I stare on in a blank, empty depression.