Jun 23, 2016, 3:56 PM

@Thenomain said in Do you believe in paranormal things?:

So what you're saying is that our tools fail us and we're left with incomplete information and have to fill in the blanks with our chaotic, unknowable human minds.

Not necessarily. I suspect that minds are knowable, but the hypothetical complexity needed to completely understand all physical and semantic features of an operating mind might require a more complex mind. I don't know-- but it is an interesting research problem that I look forward to being explored with SCIENCE.

We just have an incomplete model for both the electron and the human condition.

Well yes, obviously. Our models of everything are incomplete, but improving.

I think where I was going with the electron thing (sorry, had to get up at 7am after about 2 hours of sleep because augh food poisoning and I hadn't had coffee yet and the cat was starving so bad she was howling and knocking things off the desk even as I typed) -- was that some questions cannot be usefully answered not because they are unknowable, but because they are the wrong question. The underlying nature of reality may be such that particles not in superposition may only have one feature or another, and the other case just isn't defined once that happens. Nothing supernatural about that but it is Really Cool.

In computer science we have a number of similar cases. Consider the Halting Problem. Essentially: You can write a program that might not terminate. You cannot write a program that can test whether that is true of another program (and itself guarantee halting) in the general case. (You can always make a program more difficult to analyze, and thus cause the analyzer to fail to halt.) This isn't supernatural either, but it is very much a case of unknowable data that arises from the mathematical structures we create to understand things.

These sorts of features of unknowability are not supernatural or occult or anything of the sort. Think of them more like shadows cast by a light. We can move the light and objects around, but there will always be shadows by virtue of the logical structures we create to understand things and the inherent limitations each has. We can always switch to different models, but this only moves the shadows around, making a different set of things knowable or unknowable.

Ring the bells that still can ring.
Forget the perfect offering.
There is a crack in everything.
That's how the light gets in.

-Leonard Cohen