2016-2017 Basketball Thread

Ganymede · Oct 25, 2016, 7:48 PM

@Arkandel: Who you got?

Arkandel · Oct 25, 2016, 7:58 PM

@Ganymede Warriors. They're too stacked. Barring injuries, given Delly is in Milwaukee now and LeBron's one year older (and perhaps not as hungry) I think they got it.

Ganymede · Oct 26, 2016, 1:01 AM

@Arkandel said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

Warriors. They're too stacked. Barring injuries, given Delly is in Milwaukee now and LeBron's one year older (and perhaps not as hungry) I think they got it.

You probably are right, but, as a spoiler, I'll point out that LeBron knows how to win two in a row and maintain a consistent dynastic presence.

I think we'll see trades that will put Cleveland back in position to knock off the Warriors. They remain the best team to do so because of LBJ. Like last year, the pressure's on the Warriors, and that may be to their detriment -- Durant's, to be precise.

Arkandel · Oct 26, 2016, 1:01 AM

@Ganymede I really think if the Warriors fall this year it won't be to a player, it will be to their own thinned options. They gave up a lot of flexibility and bench to grab KD, and one twisted ankle can ruin their season on the spot.

ThatGuyThere · Oct 26, 2016, 1:30 AM

I am thinking Cavs, I see the Warriors getting upset in the West, not sure by whom, and really i don't see anyone but the Warriors beating the Cavs.

ArmedCarp · Oct 26, 2016, 7:55 AM

I hope to be pleasantly surprised by the Knicks. As far as starters go, they're as strong as anyone.

Arkandel · Oct 26, 2016, 1:12 PM

@ArmedCarp said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

I hope to be pleasantly surprised by the Knicks. As far as starters go, they're as strong as anyone.

I dunno. I watched yesterday's game and they were a mess; Carmelo stops the ball, DRose wants to run with the ball. Porzingod isn't being fed enough (and the other two stars will need to seriously sacrifice some ego to do it). Their defense was okay.

They're a marginal playoffs team unless they gel during the season.

Ganymede · Oct 26, 2016, 1:18 PM

@Arkandel said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

They're a marginal playoffs team unless they gel during the season.

The Knicks are going to get pasted by shooting teams like Toronto and Golden State.

And you're right, buddy: the Warriors are one injury away from being deficient somewhere. What will also hurt them this year are expectations: they are, on paper, better in their starting five than last year, so they will be expected to win more than 73 games. I think what we saw last year was a team that gave everything they got to beat the record, only to run out of gas in the Finals.

All you need to do is win enough games to take the No. 1 seed. With San Antonio missing Duncan, the Warriors should aim for 60 wins, not 74. They need to take advantage of scrub benchers for breaks.

ThatGuyThere · Oct 27, 2016, 1:34 PM

If we look below the title contenders, I am really hoping for the Timberwolves to make a real run at the playoffs.
Not sure if they will end up in the dance or not but I think they have a real shot at the 8th spot.
I know they will do nothing there but given the improvements they have been making I really want them to get at least 4 games of playoff experience for the young guys.

Arkandel · Oct 27, 2016, 1:34 PM

Anthony Davis needs to go to a real team. His prime is going to get completely wasted on that piece of shit roster he's stuck with.

Ganymede · Oct 27, 2016, 3:30 PM

@Arkandel said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

Anthony Davis needs to go to a real team. His prime is going to get completely wasted on that piece of shit roster he's stuck with.

Chris Bosh has done nicely, minus being a shill for Xarelto.

Arkandel · Oct 27, 2016, 3:46 PM

@Ganymede said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

Xarelto

I love CB but AD is on a whole different level. He's far better than CB ever was even now - the only question mark for him are injuries.

Then again CB probably has no room to talk about being unable to play for prolonged periods of time.

Ganymede · Oct 27, 2016, 5:56 PM

@Arkandel

What I meant was: Chris Bosh spent a good bit of his formative years on a shit team. And he did fine.

It'd be nice for the Pelicans to have a great player for a little while before he jumps ship.

Warma Sheen · Oct 27, 2016, 8:06 PM

@Arkandel said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

Anthony Davis needs to go to a real team. His prime is going to get completely wasted on that piece of shit roster he's stuck with.

This is just the way of the world these days... Why should all the best players be on just three or four teams? What's the point of having the rest of the teams around if that's the case? Was I the only one who checked out of the NBA last year altogether until the playoffs? I didn't find the drama of seeing which teams would fight for the glory of losing to the Warriors and Cavs in each conference very appealing. Occasionally, I did check in to see if the Warriors were still on pace to break the record for most wins in a season, only to have even that time spent be a waste of time when they didn't take home the trophy (which likely would have been the result a year before that if the Cavs didn't have the injuries they did).

The thing that actually made GS appeal to me is that they didn't just buy superstar talent to build their team. They developed it instead. And it was telling that they ultimately lost to a team that did. The only thing that was more disappointing than watching GS lose to a free agency stacked roster was watching GS bring over KD in the same manner to try to up the ante. I think the best players all grouping up on the same teams makes for horribly boring seasons and I hope this trend goes away quickly.

ThatGuyThere · Oct 27, 2016, 8:16 PM

@Warma-Sheen
The NBA has always had the tendency to be dominated by a few teams even before free agency existed. Look at the 80s Lakers and Celtics won a combined 8 titles and the two that were won by other teams featured the Lakers in the final. In fact the two years to the decade that the Lakers didn't make the finals it was the Rockets who did from the west to lose to the Celtics.
The only real difference free agency made was changing the jersey LeBron wears in the finals. (And gave us the two year Celtic blip in his Eastern conference reign.)
1980 is also the year the Lakers drafted Magic which his why I think it is a matter have having that one player with transcendent talent, free agency just lets them move around more freely.
The transcendent player does not always win but they do tend to make their teams a regular finals participant.

Arkandel · Oct 27, 2016, 8:21 PM

@Warma-Sheen said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

@Arkandel said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

Anthony Davis needs to go to a real team. His prime is going to get completely wasted on that piece of shit roster he's stuck with.

This is just the way of the world these days... Why should all the best players be on just three or four teams?

No reason, but I didn't say anything about a top team, I said a real team.

To define it better though, a 'real' team should:

Have a good front office with vision, opting to not go with 'win now' (hello, Brooklyn Nets of a few seasons ago) burdening their roster with terrible long-term contract gambles that will cripple them for years when/if they don't work out but also avoid the constant lotteries by opting to 'win never' (hello Sixers of... well, hello Sixers). Example here: Jerry West, since you mentioned the GSW; the guy knows his shit.
Have a good coach and let him do his thing. For instance look at Miami; Spo was hand-picked, came from within the organization and developed himself to be one of the best. As a result the Heat play consistently great ball despite massive roster changes. Or the Wolves - Thibs was a great pick, adding a defensively minded guy to work on a young, long roster.
Overall potential. AD and his ilk are rare; we don't get players like that often, they're a couple per generation. I don't want them struggling to make the playoffs surrounded by a roster unfit for them, I want them competing for rings. It's true sometimes this can't be helped, not everyone can win and bad luck happens to the best engineered teams but I can still hope these guys get their chance to show us what they are made of.

It's not about forming superteams. But I also want to point out your peeve goes against the NBA's nature. Its entire system is built in a way that the playoffs matter almost exclusively, and the regular season not so much no matter how stacked a few teams are compared to the rest.

ThatGuyThere · Oct 27, 2016, 8:24 PM

@Arkandel said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

Or the Wolves - Thibs was a great pick, adding a defensively minded guy to work on a young, long roster.

I know this is likely the irrational fan in me talking, but I fully expect Thibs to turn the Twolves into a contender in about 3 more years.

Warma Sheen · Oct 27, 2016, 8:27 PM

@Arkandel I gotcha then. I'm all for building up a great team with drafts and coaching or even bringing in role players in free agency that fit your team. And yeah, the NBA system already isn't great for seasonal enjoyment, but they keep making it worse.

@ThatGuyThere said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

I know this is likely the irrational fan in me talking, but I fully expect Thibs to turn the Twolves into a contender in about 3 more years.

Irrational fans are irrational.

Arkandel · Oct 27, 2016, 8:32 PM

@ThatGuyThere said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

@Arkandel said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

Or the Wolves - Thibs was a great pick, adding a defensively minded guy to work on a young, long roster.

I know this is likely the irrational fan in me talking, but I fully expect Thibs to turn the Twolves into a contender in about 3 more years.

If KAT continues to progress as he's projected and given how good that roster is already, I could coach them and they'd be contenders in 3 years.

@Warma-Sheen said in 2016-2017 Basketball Thread:

@Arkandel I gotcha then. I'm all for building up a great team with drafts and coaching or even bringing in role players in free agency that fit your team. And yeah, the NBA system already isn't great for seasonal enjoyment, but they keep making it worse.

Silver has actually complained about it but that's just how it is. The owners will never vote to change the system in any substantial way any time soon. The regular season is just a preview, that's why we keep seeing players rested, given minimal minutes etc - why tire LeBron for 40 minutes over 82 games when he can play 30 and not play at all if he's in any way fatigued? Sure, you screw over that kid in Utah who paid $$$ to see him sit on the bench and wave a towel the whole game but your job is to win rings, not please fans.

Warma Sheen · Oct 27, 2016, 8:38 PM

@Arkandel I had a conversation with a friend in which we threw the idea back and forth that at some point (possibly very soon) you're gonna see a team where their star player doesn't even play more than a quarter a game or maybe far less, a quarter or so in a week until the playoffs. Keeping their guys rested, but also keeping them free of injury. I pegged LBJ as the best candidate for that, especially with the way the Cavs have their roster set up. Let the other guys win enough games to get them to the playoffs, then bring in LBJ full time to win the championship. It won't matter what place they come in, so long as they get in the playoffs, then take the whole thing. It is a ridiculous notion, yet plausible in these times.