Full spoilers: Iron Fist

[Arkandel]

There will be spoilers in this thread. I just want to discuss the show. So there will be spoilers.

Spoilers.

No, really, stop reading if you don't like spoilers.

So I didn't like the second half of the season. The first 6 episodes, I felt, were interesting; I was invested in the character gaining control over Rand, to see why he left K’un-Lun in the first place and even what his actual powers were. Harold was also an intriguing villain since he was devious and calculating, someone who seemed like a good match for a showdown against a physical character - plus there was promise in the writers spending so much time showing him training.

Too bad none of it mattered.

For starters this is the first Netflix Marvel series where the hero doesn't have a good boss fight. Not one. Bakuto being in an one-vs-one against Colleen... fine, okay, plus it was a cool fight. I think I preferred her fight against that Hand chick a few episodes back because of the mixed sword styles.

But after all that, the final fight involved as a guy holding a gun and Danny trying to not get shot by hiding behind stuff. The villain's immortality - the one superpower he had - turned out to be utterly useless to him. In fact the only cool fight Danny had in the whole show was the one against that drunken master guy, and he didn't even have to fight him; he could have just let the guy sleep!

Joy's turnaround in the finale was also... peculiar. What the hell? She met a guy she'd never seen before and suddenly she's plotting against Danny because reasons? Sure, Madam Gao was present but it still felt pretty contrived to me.

Thoughts?

[Insomnia]

@Arkandel said in Full spoilers: Iron Fist:

Joy's turnaround in the finale was also... peculiar. What the hell? She met a guy she'd never seen before and suddenly she's plotting against Danny because reasons?

Because everything is Danny's fault. Did you have to pee the eleventy billion times it was said?

[Arkandel]

@Insomnia said in Full spoilers: Iron Fist:

@Arkandel said in Full spoilers: Iron Fist:

Joy's turnaround in the finale was also... peculiar. What the hell? She met a guy she'd never seen before and suddenly she's plotting against Danny because reasons?

Because everything is Danny's fault. Did you have to pee the eleventy billion times it was said?

Every time he said I'm sorry turned me into an alcoholic.

I joke, kinda, because the damn show did have potential. I didn't dislike it, I swear. After all I binge-watched the fuck out of it! But the final act was a really big let down - it's a martial arts series, at least give us a final martial arts fight!

[Clarity]

Overall do you think it was worth watching?

[Arkandel]

@Clarity Yes, it was fun. It's just not on par with Jessica Jones, Daredevil or Luke Cage, all of which had a really interesting angle.

JJ dealt with the impact superhuman characters have on ordinary people, and David Tennant was amazing, DD was gritty and nasty, he didn't win fights as much as he outlasted them. LC was a love song (sometimes literally) to Harlem and its culture.

Iron Fist was entertaining but not on that level.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@Arkandel
I'm not all the way done yet (not that I care about spoilers, clearly) but it's the lack of specificity that's bothering me maybe more than anything else. And the lack of...idk exactly how to put this, but why is Iron Fist here at all?

Daredevil covers the martial arts angle, and is also probably the most recognizable Marvel character in the Netflix series. Also, while I found the Catholic guilt stuff at times a bit 'Whatever, Matt,' it at least gives the show a distinctive feel.

Jessica Jones has a distinct power-set and was very clearly her own thing. Same with Luke Cage. I get why they're interesting characters to throw into this mix. I also get why Punisher was added when he popped so much in Daredevil. It's a very different character than the others, and he clearly adds something.

Iron Fist is...also a martial artist but played by a less good actor with less good writing than Daredevil (and also less good stunt doubling. I don't know how much Charlie Cox actually does in DD in terms of stunt work, but either him or his stunt people deserve major props because that is some of the best choreography you'll get on TV)? I don't know why THIS guy, out of all the Marvel bench-warmers that could've shone in their own show.

[Ataru]

I'm feeling much the same way. For a few episodes I was like, "Okay... this might go somewhere interesting ..." and then didn't.

Madame Gao was one of the best parts of the show. She's a fascinating villain ... I mean ... centuries old and from one of the Heavenly Capitals (Kun-Zi I think). Is she or isn't she Iron Fist's enemy? She does seem to help him at times ... and doesn't want to kill him outright. I saw someone speculate that its possible that she is the Mother Crane. Anyway... cool character. Have liked her ever since DD.

The ending was WTF. Seriously ... Joy. WTF. She's never met Davos but they were talking like they knew each other. I don't get that at all.

[Insomnia]

I liked it. The character had this quality about him - he wasn't even a reluctant hero, even the bad guys were telling him he was a bad Iron Fist. There isn't always a big bad guy, and even when there is, it's not always how you think it is.

They did change some characters from the comics (I'm not talking about getting rid of the 70;s spandex collar of doom outfit) so if you are a purist you might be disappointed. I think that's why there wasn't a Big Bad because maybe Danny's big bad will be what pulls them together as the Defenders? The end was the most cliff-hangery of them all.

Colleen is the tie that binds them all together, a very human center that's a gifted people's magnet.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Three-Eyed-Crow said in Full spoilers: Iron Fist:

Iron Fist is...also a martial artist but played by a less good actor with less good writing than Daredevil (and also less good stunt doubling. I don't know how much Charlie Cox actually does in DD in terms of stunt work, but either him or his stunt people deserve major props because that is some of the best choreography you'll get on TV)? I don't know why THIS guy, out of all the Marvel bench-warmers that could've shone in their own show.

My guess would be we have an Iron Fist show because we have a Luke Cage show and given how closely those characters are tied but publishing history they likely wanted them to be together in the upcoming Heroes For Hire show. (Yes I know the show will using the name of Marvel famous non-team but I will not call it that.)

[Anonymous]

There are two things to consider here:

• From what I gather, Iron Fist sucks. This isn't surprising because it's capeshit, and capeshit almost always sucks. I haven't watched it but going by the opinions of my friends this is the case.

• Tons of cringetastic leftyloo reviewers seem upset about the idea that a white guy doing kung fu.

Bearing this in mind I've elected to give it five stars on Netflix to contribute to the eternal triggering of authoritarian leftoids, but not actually watch it. Then I get to have my cake and eat it too.

[Pyrephox]

I liked it pretty well, but I think that it suffered from the fact that the supporting cast all had stronger and more interesting conflicts than the main character. Danny is, ultimately, a pretty simple guy - good-hearted, but with some anger management issues from unresolved grief, and with a serious need to reclaim a family that no longer exists. That could be cool (see Batman), except...everyone else has MORE going on. The Meachums themselves steal the show, because watching an emotional trainwreck is always fun, but even Colleen's got a meatier internal conflict going on. Danny is less interesting, not least of which because he's a guy who by his personality, is not good at dealing with nuance.

But it was still entertaining, and I think it had stronger throughplots than, say, Luke Cage, and less filler than Jessica Jones.

[Ganymede]

@Pyrephox said in Full spoilers: Iron Fist:

I liked it pretty well, but I think that it suffered from the fact that the supporting cast all had stronger and more interesting conflicts than the main character.

The best hero movies present the supporting cast and villains in a more favorable way than the protagonist. That's because the protagonist is not calculated to change in these stories.

[Pyrephox]

@Ganymede said in Full spoilers: Iron Fist:

@Pyrephox said in Full spoilers: Iron Fist:

I liked it pretty well, but I think that it suffered from the fact that the supporting cast all had stronger and more interesting conflicts than the main character.

The best hero movies present the supporting cast and villains in a more favorable way than the protagonist. That's because the protagonist is not calculated to change in these stories.

Possibly, but that hasn't been the case of any of the MCU products thus far, and they've been pretty decent hero stories, IMO.

[Arkandel]

@Pyrephox I think we are spoiled, that's all. Netflix's in particular have been stellar.

[Pyrephox]

@Arkandel It's true. By most metrics, IF is actually a really strong limited series. It's just not groundbreaking, and a lot of the other MCU offerings on Netflix have been.

[Ganymede]

@Pyrephox said in Full spoilers: Iron Fist:

Possibly, but that hasn't been the case of any of the MCU products thus far, and they've been pretty decent hero stories, IMO.

True. I suppose my observations are limited to serials, rather than movies.

[Arkandel]

@Ganymede said in Full spoilers: Iron Fist:

True. I suppose my observations are limited to serials, rather than movies.

I'll never give up on Marvel's Agents of SHIELD either. It's seen some slumps but that's a good show.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

Daredevil is a case where I do find the supporting characters generally more interesting than the protagonist. But even there, the protagonist is still well-done enough and can carry his own arcs (and, as mentioned above, either Charlie Cox or his stunt double is awesome in the fight scenes, which are the meat of that show).

Iron Fist is making me like Daredevil more, I guess is my main take-away so far. I'd still put it behind Jessica Jones and Luke Cage for me personally, but I appreciate how well it does what it sets out to do.

[Arkandel]

Oh! OH!

My biggest issue with the entire series, its most inexcusable fault!

You have the Hand as your bad guys and there's not one fucking ninja in the whole season? Not one? Danny is fighting people in jeans and windbreakers? Come on!

[Ganymede]

@Arkandel said in Full spoilers: Iron Fist:

You have the Hand as your bad guys and there's not one fucking ninja in the whole season?

Dude, not every ninja needs to go around looking like a villain from TMNT.