From The Ashes: Detroit by Night
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@Bobotron said:
@The_Supremes
Whoops. for some reason (I guess because the newsfile for books mentions V20), I thought Vamp was there.Looks like I'm going to dig out Changeling the Dreaming and try to read through it.
Yeah, we use it as a back-up source for how 20th works, mostly, and we have vampire NPCs so I may be learning how that all goes down. We'll see.
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Okay! This will probably be the last time I post in this thread.
I've finished with my application for my Changeling, and while it was a good bit of work, most of that work was self-imposed. It was not at all an unreasonable amount of work, and @The_Supremes was a joy to work with pretty much across the board for our group. He's a talented storyteller with a lot of personality, and everything's laid out in as much detail as it is because he wants people at least in the same chapter of the same book when they come to the table to play his game. It's not really a reasonable expectation that we'll all be on the same page, but we can at least get into the same chapter.
He has a plot, and from what I understand so far, not only is it a good storyline in that he adapts to the players involved (rather than railroading), it's going to result in the characters actually having an impact on the world around them. This is hands down the best way to get buy-in for folks. He is also well aware of the impact a big group app will have on his sphere (displaying that this definitely is NOT his first rodeo, and he has the experience to back up his claims here).
Five out of five stars, honestly. I recommend this game.
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Yeah, I'm on board from what @Sunny said.
Also, wouldn't mind running a vampire game again.
Eh. We'll see.
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@Spitfire said:
Having read over this thread, I really wish some of the more thoughtful responses from @The_Supremes were translated better onto the Wiki. In this day and age I'd argue that the wiki is one of the first place people look; my first impression of the place led me to make a post in the Hog Pit poking fun at what I saw to be typical social justice rhetoric as applied to MU Policy.
When I get some free time. (Hah!) I plan on giving our wiki another crawl for just this reason. This thread has been very useful in helping me clarify what's what.
I do have to point out the absence of any sort of entry done for the Fianna and the obvious stereotypes they invite. I can only hope you tell players that try to app in Whiskey MacDrinksalot O'Werewolf that they need the same level of depth as well.
Yeah it would.
Thank you for pointing out the blindspot, though. -
I miss owod werewolf and I like Detroit as a setting, so was semi-tempted to make a character here. But the werewolf applications page is such pretentious bullshit that I couldn't bring myself to.
The Bone Gnawers section was especially stupid. Gee, being poor is hard? And it's harder for people of color? AND it's usually not a choice? Holy shit.
This tribe draws on stories about the poor and working-class. Regardless of race, being poor is hard, though it's harder for people of color, and stories about Bone Gnawers should reflect that. Most poor people aren't that way by choice, and stories about Bone Gnawers should reflect that too. Bone Gnawers are looked down upon by the other tribes for all the same reasons that poor people are looked down upon by the more affluent. Most of us have some amount of privilege--we all have computers, after all--and so it is of utmost importance that we all show some respect when telling these stories.
I'd think it'd be harder for whites, since people of color are used to being poor, amirite?
In all seriousness, I honestly don't know how anyone can take you (Supremes) seriously, after writing that. You don't care for my opinion, fine. But the ambition of any game should be to lure people in before making them close a browser tab at its sheer stupidity in the first five minutes.
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Read the previous posts in this thread crusader. We've all gone over this. I explained why I thought it was dumb and staff explained their reasoning behind it. You'll find the discussion interesting probably.
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What Admiral said.
The sentiment is an interesting one. I'll admit that I'm actually intrigued to play a Bone Gnawer. What I'm concerned of is that the local Get, Fangs, and Lords might start being "sympathetic" to my plight, and that sort of ruins things too. It's really hard to play a character that is marginalized for nothing more than being part of a tribe when everyone's singing kumbaya and shit.
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@crusader said:
In all seriousness, I honestly don't know how anyone can take you (Supremes) seriously, after writing that. You don't care for my opinion, fine. But the ambition of any game should be to lure people in before making them close a browser tab at its sheer stupidity in the first five minutes.
"This thread has been around for a month and has accrued four pages of discussion. I wonder if someone has addressed my concerns? Guess the only way to find out is to skip everything and barge in claws out like a jackass!"
Never change, internet.
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@Wizz said:
@crusader said:
In all seriousness, I honestly don't know how anyone can take you (Supremes) seriously, after writing that. You don't care for my opinion, fine. But the ambition of any game should be to lure people in before making them close a browser tab at its sheer stupidity in the first five minutes.
"This thread has been around for a month and has accrued four pages of discussion. I wonder if someone has addressed my concerns? Guess the only way to find out is to skip everything and barge in claws out like a jackass!"
Never change, internet.
Clawed jackasses?
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@DamnitJim, don't dissect the metaphor.
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Werewolves following the totem: Donkey. Obviously.
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@Wizz Because four pages is such a lengthy and comprehensive discussion. It must not have been, if the creator still thinks that apps page is a good idea, or else it's a deliberate move to lessen interest in his game.
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@crusader said:
@Wizz Because four pages is such a lengthy and comprehensive discussion. It must not have been, if the creator still thinks that apps page is a good idea, or else it's a deliberate move to lessen interest in his game.
It was more than enough to curb any need for shit-slinging on this particular thread.
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@crusader said:
@Wizz Because four pages is such a lengthy and comprehensive discussion. It must not have been, if the creator still thinks that apps page is a good idea, or else it's a deliberate move to lessen interest in his game.
I'd suggest it was a deliberate move to lessen interest in this game, for players like you. Your sensibilities are not going to align with the Supreme's sensibilities, and as far as I understand that's the whole point of doing this in the first place rather than waiting for some obnoxious drama down the road. But we couldn't have solved the mystery without you, Scoob, great work.
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@Wizz said:
@crusader said:
@Wizz Because four pages is such a lengthy and comprehensive discussion. It must not have been, if the creator still thinks that apps page is a good idea, or else it's a deliberate move to lessen interest in his game.
I'd suggest it was a deliberate move to lessen interest in this game, for players like you. Your sensibilities are not going to align with the Supreme's sensibilities, and as far as I understand that's the whole point of doing this in the first place rather than waiting for some obnoxious drama down the road. But we couldn't have solved the mystery without you, Scoob, great work.
We have a winner.
That's my experience with the game and with Sups; he's communicated very specifically where he stands on things so that those folks who won't enjoy his game...won't come and play on his game. While I know I said I would quit squawking about it, I've been playing there for a bit now, and Sups is possibly the most active & engaged good headstaffer that I've ever run across. Also, he's a phenom storyteller. Like woah. The app requirements are NOT as bad as they look. Even a little bit.
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No offense Sunny but the degree to which you defend the game suggests a personal, vested interest in it.
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@crusader said:
@Wizz Because four pages is such a lengthy and comprehensive discussion. It must not have been, if the creator still thinks that apps page is a good idea, or else it's a deliberate move to lessen interest in his game.
Good idea is in the eye of the beholder. I've never even visited this place's Wiki, much less logged in and acquired any kind of sense of attachment to it.
Since this is someone running a game on their own private property in a free society, I'd suggest that someone a strong aversion to social justice themes should respect their property rights.
You need to reread your Locke, Hayek, and Nozick.
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@Admiral said:
No offense Sunny but the degree to which you defend the game suggests a personal, vested interest in it.
Have you read the other thread in which Sups and I 'discussed' fairly extensively his game and what issues I had with it? I'm going to guess not, because otherwise you'd realize how silly of a statement this is. I am communicating my positive experiences with the game that run counter to a few peoples' reads off of the wiki. Did you miss the 'that's my experience with the game and with Sups' part of that paragraph? I then went on to describe the experience I did have.
I have good things to say about the game because I have had a good experience. When I have bad experiences with things, I often say bad things about those things. Currently, I am enjoying myself on this site, and the "social justice themes" have only impacted my play experience positive.
I do have a vested interest in the game, though: I'm playing there and having fun. I'd like to see it do well, because that means I will have more fun.
