Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning
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@Kanye-Qwest said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
Or do what you would do in reality. If your conversation in a public place has turned into something that really needs to be continued in private...go somewhere private. Stand up and make your goodbyes and go chat about your secret plot to overthrow the shadow government.
It's not a good example though because the issue isn't really privacy - you could be talking about completely non-confidential matters - but spam.
Let's say you're sitting at a bench in a park somewhere iRL. Sure, now and then you can hear someone's kid yelling something or a couple will go by, but for the most part you can have an undisturbed conversation with someone else.
Now take the exact same thing in a 'park' room on a MUSH. You may sitting at a 'bench' place so your poses are limited to it, but everyone else who's not is posing globally. So you are still spammed for the exact same volume as if no one else was using the places code.
Now if you argued people should use places then yes, I'd quite agree, but it's not the default (and places don't exist in every room, of course).
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@Kanye-Qwest My ideal version of such code would allow you to name the participants, and they would all be teleported to the new room to continue.
There are other minor issues of continuity that also intrude, like one group poses just coming in from pouring rain, and two poses later people come into the scene talking about the break in the weather, or you start your scene at IC time, but it ruins slower than IC time, so you have folks showing up for nighttime in the middle of your lunch scene.
SOMEONE should be able to move easily.
I have a waggish sense of humor.
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I make prolific use of places in situations like this, yeah. Sometimes you get spam, but I still find I can contain the more serious scene to tt. And I'm not shy about nudging other people to tt if it's clearly appropriate from their poses. (That is: three new people are all sitting at a different table/the bar together.)
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Please note I am not suggesting to alter the way coded XP gain work - whatever's going on on Arx works and messing with the formula is probably a bad idea - but it's one of the byproducts of the system.
Everyone has 10 votes so, although that sounds like plenty, it really isn't. I routinely start to run out by mid to late week (didn't I say the game works just fine?) for instance. But the way around the limitation is by exploiting @randomscenes since there's no limit on those; any time more than a couple of newbies are in a scene somewhere in public there's a shameless feeding frenzy on those fuckers since there's a payout whether you're out of votes or not.
I'm not sure if it actually produces roleplay for them. I mean people flock to the scene but does it actually generate tangible returns other than the short term for them? I can't tell.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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Places can be awesome, when it's appropriate. I had a really great private conversation while doing a large public scene where there was a central focus that people were focused on (which provided a good cover for the conversation my character was having). But, that sort of large, focused scene is different from the 'increasingly large numbers of people wander into you random scene', and I always feel bad and wrong for confining the conversation I was having to places when there's a couple of new people who clearly want to be included.
I'm not sure there's a great answer that's universally applicable, except to try to be understanding and flexible with other players, regardless of the setup of a scene.
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@Arkandel I'd hope so. If they aren't getting real interaction, they don't have to validate the claims and I'd hope they wouldn't. But it's kind of up to them and on the honor system, and I think that it's better to lean towards generosity on this as I think it DOES feel welcoming. I hope.
As for votes, we've had some requests to increase the #. I'm on the fence.
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@Arkandel I'd hope so. If they aren't getting real interaction, they don't have to validate the claims and I'd hope they wouldn't. But it's kind of up to them and on the honor system, and I think that it's better to lean towards generosity on this as I think it DOES feel welcoming. I hope.
Oh, I agree. Perhaps what you guys could do is suggest (since you can't enforce) what the etiquette should be.
For example, mention right in the command help file that there should be roleplay taking place between the claimer and the newbie, not just posing in the same room. Right now that's kinda of a gray area - people walk in, have conversations with their existing friends ignoring the newbie but since it's taking place in the same room (and not coincidentally
) they toss the claim.It might also be a good idea to give the XPs to the newbie whether they validate or not (else they're penalizing themselves by not validating it, which won't happen) but give no way for the claimer to know if it was validated or not so there can't be OOC pressure about it.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@Arkandel said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
For example, mention right in the command help file that there should be roleplay taking place between the claimer and the newbie, not just posing in the same room. Right now that's kinda of a gray area - people walk in, have conversations with their existing friends ignoring the newbie but since it's taking place in the same room (and not coincidentally
) they toss the claim.
It might also be a good idea to give the XPs to the newbie whether they validate or not (else they're penalizing themselves by not validating it, which won't happen) but give no way for the claimer to know if it was validated or not so there can't be OOC pressure about it.That's a good suggestion that I have immediately thrown at Tehom!
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@Pyrephox said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
Places can be awesome, when it's appropriate. I had a really great private conversation while doing a large public scene where there was a central focus that people were focused on (which provided a good cover for the conversation my character was having). But, that sort of large, focused scene is different from the 'increasingly large numbers of people wander into you random scene', and I always feel bad and wrong for confining the conversation I was having to places when there's a couple of new people who clearly want to be included.
I'm not sure there's a great answer that's universally applicable, except to try to be understanding and flexible with other players, regardless of the setup of a scene.
Honestly, I tend to be welcoming enough in public scenes 75% of the time that I don't feel bad if 15% of the time I need to hide in places when other folks enter. And if there's more than one new person about, they can clearly just RP with each other, so I don't feel bad about that, either.
Re: votes, I would like them to not be shared across alts. Even if I can't vote for the same character on both alts or something like that to try and mitigate that potential affect.
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@Roz The reason we make votes shared is that we don't want to 'punish' people who focus on one alt.
I'd probably be willing to up the vote # allotted each week than see them split between alts.
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@Kanye-Qwest I can see that, but I also think on the flip side it punishes people a little bit for RPing with people who have alts. If that makes sense.
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@Misadventure said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
There are other minor issues of continuity that also intrude, like one group poses just coming in from pouring rain, and two poses later people come into the scene talking about the break in the weather, or you start your scene at IC time, but it ruins slower than IC time, so you have folks showing up for nighttime in the middle of your lunch scene.
Those sound like issues with not providing a proper set for new arrivals or new arrivals not waiting for the set. The first is an understandable oopsie. The second is annoying as hell. No one's writing is so fantastic that it cannot wait for those in the room to give a set and some poses.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
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@Ominous said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
@Misadventure said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
There are other minor issues of continuity that also intrude, like one group poses just coming in from pouring rain, and two poses later people come into the scene talking about the break in the weather, or you start your scene at IC time, but it ruins slower than IC time, so you have folks showing up for nighttime in the middle of your lunch scene.
Those sound like issues with not providing a proper set for new arrivals or new arrivals not waiting for the set. The first is an understandable oopsie. The second is annoying as hell. No one's writing is so fantastic that it cannot wait for those in the room to give a set and some poses.
I do get a bit annoyed when people pose in before waiting just to see what's going on. It could be totally nuts in a way that you'd notice as soon as you walked in, you never know!
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@Misadventure said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
i've never had a scene, spontaneous or not, survive that many people. Ever.
Back on Aether, we had this problem. I hesitate calling it a problem, mind, because people seeing others in public and rushing to join in and mix people up seemed like a pretty good problem to have. The players came from other large-scene games and what tended to happen was this: You knew what part of the scene you were in and reacted around that; organically people tended to eventually break up into 3s and 4s.
The problem players were those who reacted to everything, to every 8 or 9 people in the room. Social pressure did tend to help a little, but it does depend on the social grouping and the game culture, etc. I find WoD players to be more this type, trying to react to everything that happens in the room instead of what is happening in their sub-section, their scene itself. Pern and other Original Theme players don't seem to be this concerned about it, though the reasons for this are a study for probably some other time and certainly some other thread.
The point being that scenes this large can survive when they tend to become multiple scenes in one location.
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@Roz said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
Honestly, I tend to be welcoming enough in public scenes 75% of the time that I don't feel bad if 15% of the time I need to hide in places when other folks enter. And if there's more than one new person about, they can clearly just RP with each other, so I don't feel bad about that, either.
How do you handle the spam though since not everyone is using a place? It's usually my problem... well, that and people reacting to everything anyone is saying, so I have 6 people trying to talk to my PC at once which gets pretty weird if I try to visualize it.
Re: votes, I would like them to not be shared across alts. Even if I can't vote for the same character on both alts or something like that to try and mitigate that potential affect.
I like Arx is liberal about it. Is circlejerking a thing? I'm pretty damn sure it is, and not just for votes but tasks, investigations, etc as well. Trying to stop this though will eventually damage legitimate players and probably the special ones will work around it... and I say that as someone who doesn't do alts, so I've no horses in that race.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@Arkandel Places.
In real life socializing what you describe happens, too. And the natural inclination is for people to organically split up into smaller groups at their own tables (or even just corner of tables), and shadowy recesses, etc.
Using places is what I try to do. Drag one or two people over and use places.
While you're still getting spammed, sure, you can also just not read all that spam because you're busy in your own place.
If that doesn't work, I guess leaving is the only option. Take your buddy and move on to the next room.
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@lordbelh said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
In real life socializing what you describe happens, too. And the natural inclination is for people to organically split up into smaller groups at their own tables (or even just corner of tables), and shadowy recesses, etc.
The equivalent in real life is that you go and sit at your table with your two friends, but another six people are standing in the middle of the room raising their voice so their volume is the same as the ones next to you.
If places were mandatory or there was a filter so you only saw what's happening on it then yes, that'd be true. I guess a spawned window might help.
But this isn't just me griping about a theoretical issue. You've been in those scenes and you've seen people go 'sorry, this is too big for me to handle' and leave, right?
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When scenes get too large for me I basically just throw out random poses of being here doing a thing. Unless someone specifically talks to me then I respond to them. Because I am a less pushy person about getting people to Rp with me, I mostly get forgotten. And my hammered into me politeness rarely has me interrupting people doing their thing so I pose accordingly (IE: X wanders in and glances around. She notices Y and Z but they seem engaged so she lets them be.' I also find that in larger scenes if you try engaging you get ignored due to poses being missed or something.
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@icanbeyourmuse That's unfortunately probably a terrible way to get engaged, as it can be seen as kind of passive aggressive.
Find a conversation you want in on, and pose your way in! Use names, be polite (or at least be ENGAGING). If they miss it the first time, don't take it personally if it's a big scene. Try again. Or send a message later, like 'hey I couldn't help but overhear you at X, you seem interesting/I would like to subscribe to your newsletter check yes or no".
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My interruptions have always been more ... severe.
People come in, and have a gun fight. Never try to engage the players there. Just interrupt.
People come in, loudly have a scene where they paint the entire setting up as they like, then leave.
Why these people even bothered to come to a place where others were is beyond me.
I have a waggish sense of humor.
