Dragon Age: Smoke & Shadows

[Roz]

I love FCs, this all feels a whole lot like saying "we're setting this game at the beginning of Captain America: Civil War, but don't worry, Steve Rogers won't be the most important part."

[saosmash]

@Roz You mean different from the movie somehow...?

But seriously -- I feel like I'd be way more chill with a post-canon game that included FCs this way than one AU canon. I love Dragon Age and I love FCs (my one finished fic!) but I feel like it's a difficult game barrier to leap over.

As an ex-staffer on a since-closed Mass Effect game, I wish you guys the absolute best of luck but I'm afraid I'm gonna join the others on this thread who are a bit over the setting/theme choice here.

[Sunny]

I just have no interest in being a backdrop for all the interesting stuff to happen for someone else. Including FCs means they are the story, and it's such a small number of them that most folks get left out in the cold. At least with comic games there are SO MANY that it's a different thing entirely. But... it's a single player RPG. If someone is going to play Hawke...like. Why? What's the point? The good part of this stuff is the setting, the world, the theme -- these things are awesome. Choosing instead to focus on the story of a limited list of characters is not just a waste...if I wanted that, I could just go play the game itself. I'm disappointed that the first DA game we are seeing chose to do this. I won't be playing there for this reason.

I do know of another DA game in basic stages that is, afaik, doing it just prior to Inquisition, without FCs, following a different storyline with some of the same general events. So I'm willing to wait.

I do wish y'all the best, but...ew. Really.

[Dragon]

@Roz If this was a setting like Mass Effect or Captain America, then sure. But none of the Dragon Age games have ever been the same hero or set of heroes - aside from some minor companion overlap. If I remember correctly it was David Gaider who talked at one point during a Q&A about the fact that all of the potential Inquisitor individuals exist in Thedas in every world state, it's just a matter of who was in the right place at the right time in an individual playthrough to step up and become the hero (or wrong place/wrong time, depending on your outlook XD)

That's the spirit of play we're aspiring for; that decisions are made by those who show up, not just those with fashionable streaks of blood over their noses.

[Sunny]

If the FCs don't matter, what's the point of including them?

[Kanye Qwest]

@Dragon
It's not a bad idea, but then why are you setting the game during DA2, in Kirkwall? That's not a faceless inquisitor or warden you can make any number of ways. That's Hawke's story, and Hawke is a very specific character.

[Arkandel]

Also consider you may want to attract players who haven't played the computer game. It sounds weird but for example comic MU* do get players who don't read comics yet want to play superheroes, or they're there because their friends are, etc.

[Dragon]

@Sunny It's not that they don't matter, it's that they don't matter more than an OC. We all do this to write characters we enjoy. Someone may really enjoy writing Isabela and there's no reason for me to say they can't. The entire plot isn't going to revolve around Isabela, but the entire plot isn't going to revolve around one single OC either, so what harm is there in giving people the choice in who they want to play?

@Kanye-Qwest That's a very fair question. At first we did look into an Inquisition-era setup (there's even a very lovely Haven built in a hidden niche on the grid) but when it came down to game mechanics, what worried me most was the scope of Inquisition. It's huge. It spans like five countries.

Now, a long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away) I started M*ing on games that took place in Anne McCaffrey's Pern world. And when I first started there were enough players that the game(s) could sustain different 'areas' and spread out across a vast world while still giving everyone ample opportunities for RP. But as the years went on and playerbases dwindled, that spread-out nature is part of what contributed to the death of those games. I worried that Inquisition would be biting off more than a brand new game (with an uncertain level of interest) could chew.

Kirkwall was chosen because it's a single city that has enough going on in canon to support gameplay and still small enough that it can concentrate players in one place so that RP is never hard to find. This time-period was chosen because it's a good 'lynch-pin moment' in time - the Fifth Blight is over, the Mage-Templar war is a few years away, yet, nothing world-altering is happening in the early years of Kirkwall. DA2 may have been Hawke's story (which could vary wildly based on who each individual Hawke is and what he/she does so even that is a bit murky) but the Hawke in chargen hasn't been declared the Champion of Kirkwall, he hasn't gone to the Deep Roads, he's just a guy living in a shack with his family trying to get by - and the player knows and is fine with that. It's more fun to share the 'heroing' stuff around and they just really like writing their Hawke doing even everyday stuff. If there ever comes a day when we have the playerbase to move forward into an Inquisition-esque setting, where we can open up more areas to play, we would absolutely love to look into that.

But for now we are little and still getting our legs under us. From a game mechanics perspective, Kirkwall made the most sense.

[OrcRiot]

It's been a while since I played, but the stories are based around specific characters and all the other high powered non-evil characters are kind of in disarray. There's very few wardens. So if this is set during a specific time, with specific wardens and other non-evil FC...doesn't that limit the potential of people who might not want to play FC. And how can you be sure the people you pick for FC (there's a certain mindset to picking to play a FC, You want to be central, that's why you pick) won't try to force themselves as the center of the story, because as a FC that's what you're whole existence is for. Especially in a series with limited FC like this. It isn't like Marvel where FC's can include 100 different people.

[Sunny]

I think it's a poor design choice that will ultimately do more harm than good, but it does seem like they're set on doing it this way, soooo...best of luck, I guess. Disappointing.

[OrcRiot]

Another issue is people on mushes are notorious for vanishing. With FC's that creates an issue where, when a new person takes over, personalities change, stories are forgotten (or badly continued) and new OOC personality conflicts might occur when character's players who previously got along no-longer get along. FC's in general, usually turn out bad.

[Steel]

@Thenomain What changed my mind was a couple of things. The first, and most important, to me, was a Staff who seemed genuinely excited for crafting plot, and fitting into their existing plot, the OC that I first joined the game with. It was the collaborative effort that came from Dragon here, who never, ever made me feel as though the character I was crafting was a backdrop piece. Who, when suggestions they made about things with the character seemed to not fit my understanding of canon, was willing to listen and work with me. What I think softened me up to the idea, however, was having run an alternate-canon LARP for the past few years.

This is where this response will turn to be directed to the thread at large. There seems to still be this concern that this story is 'about' FCs, but the fact is that the story isn't something people know. There, as I said, will be some events that are from DA2, but likely not all of them will occur. We are not playing DA2, we are playing in the era of DA2. Does that mean that "Hawke's story" may be drastically, irrevocably different? Yes. It completely does.

@DnvnQuinn This is a point that is valid concern. However, as FCs are something that need to be auditioned for, Staff feels they are able to select people who will mesh well with the environment the FC they are taking currently finds themselves in. And, as someone who has, up until recently, spent much of his MU time on a game where influential people in important rolls often come and go, playerbases are absolutely capable of adjusting to such fluxs.

[Kanye Qwest]

My actual concern is not that Staff-run plot will be all about the FCs, but more these two points:

1. Who are these people? I would probably weep if I ran into Varric in a game and he was unfunny or terse or (absolute worst case) trying to have sex with people.
2. Even if Staff isn't focusing on the FCs, it seems very likely /players/ will be. Why would anyone come join my random card game if Fenris and Hawke walk in and shout that they want to play Wicked Grace?

[Steel]

@Kanye-Qwest This is why we audition, so we can get the feel of someone's voice for the character. We would not approve a Varric who was unfunny or terse. That... Is not going to happen. As for if Players focus on the FCs, well, again, this is sorted of weeded out in us talking to those who are interested in them. Walk into a scene and there is something going on already? /Join/ the scene, don't walk all over it. We expect some common courtesy from people, but even more so from people who are playing FCs.

[Thenomain]

Having run an audition-based book-character game (TwoMoons, an ElfQuest game), I can verify that it's a good idea. And with only five to eight book characters to monitor, it just means the staff has to be involved with the game.

@Sunny: The characters are involved in the game. We know exactly how and exactly when. What I don't particularly care for is knowing that nothing that these characters do can't be done by NPCs, except for Varric and possibly Sebastian and Blondie, as they all have more interaction with the city than anyone else for the first year. Maybe Lady Man-Hands after she signs on with the Watch.

All of this nervousness comes from having played WoD games for too long where I find myself picking up after the emotionally broken lowest common denominator, where I'm waiting not if but how people are going to try and abuse the system.

So I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Knowing that if someone does turn their game upside-down on them, we'll hear it here first.

[Sunny]

Okay. So. The objection I had was that this is a game about X. It was then stated that no, it is not a game about X. Which turned my question into 'why have X at all'?

I don't think it makes them bad people or even a bad game, it's just that hell would freeze over before I'd play on a game with this setup.

[Steel]

@Thenomain As an also extensive WoD player, I can understand that feeling, and appreciate your benefit of the doubt greatly. We are really trying to make this a place that has an active Staff that keeps things from getting out of hand, and that can really work with everyone to give them a place and something to do. It's a very serious goal.

@Sunny Well, because they're fun, to be frank with you. I totally get it's not your bag, but the 'but what if' scenarios that people write with FCs can be very rewarding. Further, there are some events in the plot that are facilitated by the presence of some of the FCs. There will be events facilitated by the presence of OCs, as well, but the FCs are a known variable that we can plan for, as it were. I hope you find what you are looking for in other games though, and I don't begrudge you the opinion. Until recently, I likely would have shared it.

[OrcRiot]

You're going to do what you want to do and that's fine. But because this is a forum, I feel ok with sharing my opinion.

Like I said before, the reason this sorta works on other games (I've never heard of WoD games having FC's, so not sure how that applies here), is those games have such a momentous cast of possible FC's. With such a limited pool here, it just seems both silly and asking for ego-driven cliques.

The interview process doesn't change my opinion. This is the internet not only that, but these are games where people regularly pretend to be something their not constantly. If I can successfully pretend to be both the opposite gender, opposite sexual orientation and someone whose personality is in direct conflict with my own, why wouldn't I be able to convince you that I'm awesome, even though what I really want is the shiny badge of playing Varric or whomever else. If I get to play a FC, I'm automatically assumed by people who are familiar with the games to be important, or to be respected IC. It gives me a edge, regardless of where the stories go. I'll have a in, I won't have to work to develop a character to MAKE them important, I won't have to do the work to develop a backstory, or figure out my place in the world unlike everyone else who didn't get a chance early on to snatch up one of the coveted FC positions. People who come later after all the FC's are required to actually do the work, to make a effort that the people who just take an existing character didn't have to do.

Life might not be fair, but we like when things are fair and can limit unfairness by choosing not to partake in something, and that doesn't seem fair. Again, the games that succeed with FC are the ones like Transformers and Marvel. With countless FC's to choose from. There just isn't a pool here big enough.

[Deleted]

FC? No thank you.

[bored]

Yeah, reading more, the PC Hawkes is just.. I don't know why you'd bother. And hering 'they're working closely with staff' and 'they're not going to be the focus of the game' in the same breath just sets off all kinds of alarms. Frankly, I just don't believe it. It's the same thing staff says on every one of these games, and on every one of these games, it turns out to be BS.

The worst thing about it is there's no reason to do it with Dragon Age. It really isn't a setting that relies on a singular messiah the way Star Wars does, and yet (some) games manage to do Star Wars without playable Skywalkers.