[Request] Policy Template

Kanye Qwest

I don't know. Having extensive policies and warnings and an explicit process for defining whether or not someone is being an unfun dick just seems to me to give people ways to weasel out of admitting they are being an unfun dick. Ohh I didn't realize, no one else I page detailed descriptions of my dick to seems to mind. I've never even heard a complaint! Oh, you've talked to me about this before? Ahh, well, I appealed that talk and so now I'm only at the step 1 warning so I guess I will do what I want until I'm at step 9? Ass covered? I guess?

It seems to me cleaner to have a reasonable staff(er) be the disciplinarian. Kind of a, if you do something dickish but it could be a misunderstanding or maybe you just don't know any better due to changing game cultures, that person will ask you to cease and desist, and then if you do it again they can just tell you that you aren't a good fit and to hit the road. Or, if someone does something really, truly reprehensible to another player, you can just give them the boot right then. No letting them linger through warnings and appeals, likely paging their victims the whole time to pressure them to recant.

I think better is pretty hard to define when it comes to things like "how to police a pretend fun time game where nothing really matters", but I can definitely say which style I'd prefer in the games I personally play.

surreality

@Bobotron said in [Request] Policy Template:

I think there's a point where there's a bit of 'blinders' on the policy stuff, particularly in certain communities throughout MU*land.

I'm a detail person also, but for a somewhat different reason.

Namely, this is a hobby with a lot of 'understood' and 'unspoken' rules about manners, conduct, etc. Depending on what part of the hobby one is in, this also varies somewhat widely, which complicates everything further.

That is an enormous hurdle for new players to learn, and it is very easy for people to become alienated by innocent missteps before they hit their stride or adapt.

As @Sunny mentions, expectations must be clear -- also as a matter of simple fairness.

Bobotron

@surreality
I am in agreement; the expectations must be clear. Which is why I find it odd when there's things that end up as issues that, for some reason, are not in part of policy. I look at the concept of policy from a community-agnostic approach, treating everyone equally and fairly within the bounds of what I want the policy to be.

I think the unspoken rules are what hurts things; people go from game to game within the same community/genre and assume that, when they weren't 'doing something wrong' on one game, they wouldn't be doing something wrong on this other game too.

Tat

I think it's good to spell out things that are specific to your community. We actually have a bit that's sort of 'how we RP' that lays out some of the norms of our game that new players have gotten hung up on, but that fall outside of policy (for example, please ask before joining an ongoing scene, even in a public place).

When I say not to spell out every detail, for me that is less about these sorts of 'understood M* norms' and more about understood /being a decent person/ norms.

So I don't think you need to spell out not to call someone mean names and all the places you might do it, or to play staff against each other, or to tell lies about other players.

That's shit that I feel real comfortable giving you a talking-to for whether it's written down or not, because that's about being a decent human being, and I only want decent human beings on my games.

That said, we also always give people a chance to correct behavior, so the only potentially unforeseen consequence is a chat with staff. If it keeps happening, then it's not unforeseen, because you've been warned.

Lithium

I'm of the opinion that there is no single policy template that will work for everyone.

I have a few policies I feel are absolutely key, and if people break them I will point, then stomp.

I don't believe in three strikes, I believe people should be adult enough to step away when it is time to step away.

First offense /may/ be a warning, so you know you've crossed the line, but second will always be a boot in the face.

Sometimes the first will be a boot in the face if it's something like violating the 'no rape or you will be deleted' rule.

Sunny

@Lithium

Yep. And I think those 'immediate boot to the face' things are different for most game leads. My button issue is 'if I catch you fucking spying OOC I will end you'.

Though honestly the longer I do this hobby the longer my list of 'no second chances, do this and you're gone' things is. I was checking through my policies mentally to see which ones I'd be more likely to allow a 'second chance' for and I'm coming up mostly with 'none of them'. Mainly I think it would be doing things not-by-the-rules by reasonable 'ignorance' standards -- they didn't know the rules for PRPs and didn't realize it was different than X or Y's game, or something like that. If the primary problem is 'didn't read a news file' and not what I feel should be common standards of behavior (if someone tells you to stop paging them, STOP) or whatever, that's where I'd give people chances. Where I can say -- yeah, this is traditionally different here and while yes you should have read the files, go do that now, and all the other ones, too -- that I can easily see what happened. If it's not a situation like that, though? Meh, I'm not big on second chances any more. Cause a problem? Bye.

Lithium

@Sunny Well I take the 'Didn't read the rules' answer right out of the available options. Yes, you don't /have/ to read the rules (Though I am working on a way to make it mandatory but even then someone could just not read and look for key things) as they scroll across your screen, but people are signing that they have read and understand the rules before they even make it past the new player room on my game.

I also agree that as I have gotten older, there's just more and more stuff I cannot and will not fuck around with anymore. Follow the rules, or be gone. It's really that simple.

Sunny

@Lithium

Yeah, totally, and we'll probably have something saying 'I read all the rules' and stuff...but that doesn't mean people actually read them, and while it's annoying as all hell...enh. I don't read ELUAs like I should. It happens. But yeah, I agree in general with what you're saying.

Sunny

@Lithium

Also also also.

One of the OTHER things I've noticed that alongside less tolerance for rule-breaking is the fact that I don't make as MANY rules. My questions list for whether or not a rule is necessary has gotten way longer.

Why is this needed?
Is it a personal taste issue that has nothing to do with anything?
Am I making this rule just because other games have this rule?

The big ones I've added to my wheelhouse lately is:
Am I willing to do what would be required to enforce it?
Am I willing to be the one responsible for enforcing it?
Will I enforce it?

(yes, yes, doublepost, but I didn't feel like an edit was appropriate for this. shut up.)

faraday

@Bobotron said in [Request] Policy Template:

I see people here saying that you don't need to define policies in the most strictest detail, but some of those polices - and people not following them -- are the very things that we bitch about on this forum. And then when it becomes a clusterfuck because there was no policy point to reference, it spirals into insanity.

I respectfully disagree. Things spiral into insanity when people act insane. Having more or fewer policies doesn't change this. I have yet to see anyone flip out and create a 10-page long thread because staff enforced a vague yet sensible policy.

I have, however, seen staff hamstrung in their attempts to deal with a problem player because "well, dang, technically they didn't break rule 602 because of the way it's worded" or "wow this guy totally sucks, but we have to give him three strikes according to the policy; hopefully he won't drive everyone off while we're waiting for him to screw up next."

@Sunny said in [Request] Policy Template:

Why is this needed?

Yes, this exactly. I like to consider "Is this really likely to become an issue?" and "what are the effects if it does become an issue?" Like, I've seen very reactionary policies sometimes. IdiotGuy did something stupid on SomewhereMUSH in 2001 therefore there needs to be a policy to keep someone else from doing the same.

Unless it was a huge catastrophe (pretty rare in my experience), or it happens ten times a year, no - there probably doesn't need to be a policy about it.

surreality

@faraday To be fair, we have not seen it here yet, but we used to see it all the time on WORA.