Arx- Gareth

[Kanye Qwest]

Ok I amend my statement again. Thenomain can go fuck herself, since only catty sorts use winky smileys.

[Thenomain]

@Kanye-Qwest said in Arx- Gareth:

Ok I amend my statement again. Thenomain can go fuck herself, since only catty sorts use winky smileys.

I'd rather be catty than a pussy, pussy.

[Kanye Qwest]

I don't even..is that because I HAVE one, or are you implying I'm in some way a coward? I have lost the steps, the dance is rent asunder.

[Arkandel]

This thread has gotten weirder, and it started out pretty weird.

[Thenomain]

Then my work here is done.

Non Sequitur Man, up! And away! And astounded! And did you check out what happened to the Space X test launch? So sad.

[Kanye Qwest]

Who WAS that masked dipshit?

[Thenomain]

@Kanye-Qwest said in Arx- Gareth:

Who WAS that masked dipshit?

Man, I try to let it go and you keep picking it back up.

I'm going to free you from your-- no, no I'm not. I'm going to say:

That's the mirror, you dork.

[Kireek]

@Arkandel Nope!

@mietze Did you actually read the introduction to the actual thread? Where.. I was pretty upfront about why they had me leave? So you interpreted that as me.. trying to be a victim then? Considering my annoying arguments that kept this thread alive more had to deal with a personal petty problem that stemmed more with another problem. I'm worried I somehow managed to break the community by being actually upfront about my bullshit. Are you okay? Showing some level of cognizance and rationality about your faults and then complaining is unacceptable! Never could anyone sane stem from that behavior, instead better to hide everything and snipe from behind closed doors!

@Rucket Hm... Hmmmmmmmmmm... Considering I've only received that complaint from one person specifically for just acting normal- not belligerent or aggressive... ehhhhh no?

[surreality]

@Kireek: @Rucket is actually actually dead on, and you should seriously consider their advice.

You can be seriously off-putting sometimes, dude. The whole 'eh' 'hmmmmmm' 'peeeeeeeeers' stuff all over the channels from out of nowhere comes off creepy and/or condescending and/or like pointless, directionless negativity to some people, even if you may not intend it that way. (And I'm pretty sure you don't intend it that way, so it's probably worth mentioning if you weren't aware of this.)

Having been one of the staffers elsem* who had to hear complaints about it, it isn't just one person who has made them, and it hasn't just occurred on one game.

[Kireek]

@surreality Hm! Did not know that! Thank you for informing me!

[surreality]

@Kireek I figured you probably didn't, which is why I'm mentioning. It can come off badly, and it may help to keep it in mind if something like this starts to crop up again re: negativity/etc.

[Auspice]

I'll just say... I haven't yet seen you actually own your shit.

I've seen you say a lot of 'Well, I guess people may think that,' 'Maybe you interpreted it that way,' etc..

A lot of excuses and redirection of blame, but no actual 'Woah, yeah, that was my bad, I'm sorry.'

[Kireek]

@surreality Hm, I've got all sorts of questions now! This will be fun!

[mietze]

Owning your shit and apologizing genuinely (hint: this does not involve an I'm sorry but/I'm sorry you feel that way/I'm sorry that my attempt to be awesome just wasn't what you wanted/I'm sorry I'm such a horrible catastrophe who need to go eat worms) as well as, shutting the fuck up when you're asked to do so at the time goes a long way to settle/rebuild relationships.

Though depending upon the offense and what happened it doesn't always salvage your participation.

I think it's fine to disagree or whatever, but honestly it sounds like you just did not listen when told to stop. Stop means stop. If you cannot it's best to walk. For the night/week/permanently/whatever.

Yes, even if you thought you were tirelessly working to improve your family/group/the game/whatever. It's not fair sometimes, and some folks are better than others at recovery. I think a lot of us mushers have difficulties with knowing when to back off or change tone, ect. But when you are given explicit direction, just...I don't know. If you truly want to stay on a play just bite your tongue and do it, and give it some time to see if you still want to play, with that restriction, once you're not in the moment.

And there is never, ever a good reason to go off on a channel, especially a public one, ever. Even if it's about game stuff like systems and stats. Just don't do that unless you're on the Rules Lawyer channel with other people who love that stuff (there's always a few, keep it to there so you have fun without stressing everyone else out.)

But really. Sometimes even when your dander is up and you're about to saddle up that tall horse, especially if it's with staff on their game--it's wiser to just shut up.

[mietze]

And I'm not coming at this from a Perfectly Perfect Person standpoint. When I think back on all of the heartbreakers in my MUSHlife, where OOC relationships were damaged, where games broke up, ect--whether or not I was directly involved or not, at some point somewhere along the way most (not all but most) could have been greatly reduced in scope and impact if I or someone else would have just...NOT said what was on their mind in the midst of a fit of pique. If we'd just sat with it, even though it was uncomfortable. If we'd not had to get the last word in. If maybe it was okay to cede the point, even if there was still fight left in our spirit.

I have never been kicked off a game or put in timeout, but certainly over 22 years of mushing I can look back and think back on things where it would not have been unwise or unreasonable to have been, based on things I've said to people (or didn't say).

But take it for what it's worth (not much, as free unsolicited advice goes)--if you find yourself bumping up against staff a couple of times, and they're telling you your personality/the way you talk to people/specific actions are not okay--either decide to change it (or talk less ooc and focus on play), or decide if you really are just better off finding a game where the staff tolerates your behavior. Fighting it with "but I did so much for you" is a losing tide. Or even an "I don't know what I'm doing," or "I can't help it." Ultimately if you can't control it, or even see it, then you're just going to keep bumping heads, and that's not fun for anyone. So just find a place where you dont or it's big enough with enough changeover that people are more tolerant with folks that they feel they have to manage.

I don't think there's probably any MUSHer out there who has not felt eventually or even been told directly that they need to just let a game go because it's not working out. Some personality types tend to be martyrs and try to stick it out, but all that does is make it worse and uncomfortable for everyone (and as someone with those inclinations, I totally understand).

[Thenomain]

Since you're on a roll, @mietze:

Corollary: If staff finds they want to or are telling a player to "shut up" in those exact words, or their blood pressure is rising, take a breath and step back to either let yourself settle down or to let someone else step in. Tagging-out is not a sign of weakness; it's a sign of wisdom and ultimately in this hobby taking care of your players is a strength.

Everything that @mietze said is true for staffers as well as players. I say this to assure balance, in no small part because we've all been there, feeling like staff is not playing by their own rules. If staff doesn't play by their own rules, if staff does not act the way they are willing to let other people act, the rules, guidelines, or desires of the staff are diminished.

People take the cues on how to behave on a game from staff first and foremost. I've watched many staff, not just players, be told that they need to let the game go, or staff tell other staff to back off (aka "shut up"), and the fights that followed were no less disastrous nor dramariffic than when a player does it; perhaps even more.

[Crysta]

That rule is one of the rules you can't really pretend you were unaware of; if he deliberately ignores it and encourages others to do the same, then it's a pretty big problem. The rest of it doesn't really matter, to me.

And it's a good rule. Since the resources given via completed tasks is more valuable than the actual currency in the game, I think it's pretty tempting to abuse the system and become a monster in harassing players to get tasks done FOR THE BETTERMENT OF TEH HOUSE. Which is decidedly not-fun.

EDIT: also you probably shouldn't be casually completing rating 75 tasks (currently the highest in the game) in alpha when it's specifically for big, long-term IC projects anyway.

[Roz]

@Kireek said in Arx- Gareth:

3. Did not ask to see that players stats. If saying I'm curious about the rest of a players sheet now once I learned they had freely offered 100 xp into another bit of stats is asking.. and then they offer it, I didn't technically ask, did I, I never demanded they tell me either.

I don't know anyone involved with this, but honestly this is all I really need. "I didn't ask to see his stats, I just happened to say I was curious about them in a manner that clearly expressed I would like to know! That's not technically asking!!"

[tek]

This thread is a gift that keeps on giving.

[Kireek]

@Roz Don't see the point of your quote, I mean why would you just repeat exactly what I'm saying?