@Derp said:
A world of difference? Eh. They give you an edge, but not so much of one that they make it impossible for other people to one-up you.
Maybe we're splitting hairs here, but being able to roll Brawl and Weaponry with 8-again as a Level 1 Gift seems to grant more than a slight edge to Rahu in close combat. If you think that's a small edge, consider that the Gift of Strength (Purity) also bumps your Strength by your Purity score.
@Derp said:
Short of the Moon Gifts, any werewolf can buy anything, and once it's unlocked, adding facets is all the same price, assuming you have the relevant renown.
Werewolves can totally buy moon gifts as well, unless it's house-ruled on Eldritch. Under Gifts and Rites on page 85:
A werewolf always has one Moon Gift associated with her auspice. She gains the appropriate Facet every time she gains a dot in her auspice Renown without spending any further Experiences. If she should pick up another Moon Gift at a future point, she may unlock the first dot in that Gift for five Experiences, and further Facets for two Experiences each.
@Glitch said:
Werewolves can totally buy moon gifts as well, unless it's house-ruled on Eldritch.
As with most things White Wolf publishes, this point is directly contradicted. In this case, the description of each Moon Gift makes it clear that it is available only to certain Auspices.
What I think the writers intended to include was a mechanism to switch Auspices. I did not find that mechanism in my cursory search of the book.
So, you can learn more than one Moon Gift, but Moon Gifts may only be learned by a particular Auspice.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
My dreams of Lunar Month Wolfman, the most beloved of Luna's children, are over. Thanks for ruining my one good concept this year, @Ganymede.
Or unless there are going to be more Auspice-locked Moon Gift paths in a planned expansion. Blood Moon? Shadow Moon? Etc.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
Some spheres (like Vampire) allow cross-faction but that's not the same thing of course since Auspices are closer to Clans.
Generally speaking I prefer systems where XP flow in somewhat freely - and Eldritch fits under that category, especially for players who file a lot of Breaking Point jobs - to discourage just buying all the things. It promotes homogenization especially among dinosaurs; it's kind of disappointing for a new player to create an Irraka a year after the launch and meet my Rahu who also has all the New Moon Facets too, you know?
Because otherwise 5 XP is a trivial expenditure for what Auspice Gifts can do.
@Thenomain said:
Or unless there are going to be more Auspice-locked Moon Gift paths in a planned expansion. Blood Moon? Shadow Moon? Etc.
This is what they mean, yeah. Not that you can buy other Auspice's gifts, but that you can buy other moon gifts within your same Auspice when they release more in the future. Witch's Moon, things like that. Chris Allen clarified this on the OP forums.
I am really interested in seeing what other Moon Gifts will come out later. I suspect there will at least be one set of Moon Gifts in The Pack; I doubt we'll get any in Secrets of the Tribes, for obvious reasons, but we might get more Shadow Gifts in that book. I really hope they both have at least one or two additional Wolf Gifts, too. That would be awesome. I really like the way Gifts are structured in 2e: they provide a stable cross-theme application wherein you have a single theme for the Gift and then "how does that Gift apply in a [Renown] way?" With the exception of Moon Gifts, of course, but I like those being so tightly bound to Auspices.
Yeah the section about additional moon gifts is forward planning for future supplements. In 1E, there were three total gift lists per Auspice.
I'm a rodeo clown.
@tragedyjones said:
Yeah the section about additional moon gifts is forward planning for future supplements. In 1E, there were three total gift lists per Auspice.
Here's hoping they don't make the same mistake they did in 1e and have a bunch of Facets that do the same fucking thing across different Gifts. Seriously, we didn't need like three or four Gifts that let werewolves seen in the dark, guys.
Does limiting anything like other Auspice Gifts work? For instance (aka eg), would it work to say that you can have say 5 other Auspice Gifts, plus one per special event, where the special event is something that's not a personal PrP to get the gift?
Or will be cry that they can't have the build they want? Or that its dinosaurs all the way down? Or that it's staff favoritism?
Is there any way to protect the niches built into the games, or should we assume a laisez-faire design intent, and of course if you have 200 beats you should be able to buy whatever you want?
I have a waggish sense of humor.
@Misadventure said:
Does limiting anything like other Auspice Gifts work? For instance (aka eg), would it work to say that you can have say 5 other Auspice Gifts, plus one per special event, where the special event is something that's not a personal PrP to get the gift?
Or will be cry that they can't have the build they want? Or that its dinosaurs all the way down? Or that it's staff favoritism?
Is there any way to protect the niches built into the games, or should we assume a laisez-faire design intent, and of course if you have 200 beats you should be able to buy whatever you want?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Auspice Gifts are limited to the Auspice they belong to. Period. If people start complaining because one person has the same Moon Gift as them, they're going to be laughed at, at least.
@Misadventure said:
Is there any way to protect the niches built into the games, or should we assume a laisez-faire design intent, and of course if you have 200 beats you should be able to buy whatever you want?
If you are Irraka, only other Irraka have access to the New Moon Gift line. So no matter how many XP someone might have they're not going to be able to buy anything from it.
Is that what you mean?
I probably misunderstood what was being discussed above.
I am still interested in how you transition protection via XP cost to something else when your environment has about X10 the xp the designers envisioned (or that the designers left in the hands of the ST to be loose or strict with as suited their needs).
I have a waggish sense of humor.
@Misadventure said:
I probably misunderstood what was being discussed above.
I am still interested in how you transition protection via XP cost to something else when your environment has about X10 the xp the designers envisioned (or that the designers left in the hands of the ST to be loose or strict with as suited their needs).
I think you're talking about something entirely different than the rest of us. No one mentioned protection via XP costs; we mentioned protection via not being able to take those powers in the first place. If you are not an Irraka, you can't take Irraka Auspice Gifts.
Exactly. All Werewolves hunt. Any werewolf can be a killer. But only Rahu can get the Full Moon''s Gift.
I mentioned xp protections. You know, from the designer. The ones mentioned in the sentence. Cuz I think that is part of what the designers are including in their thinking process.
It was the one right after I said I misunderstood what was being discussed.
WTF? Do you need an apology or something?
I believe he was just trying to clarify for you @Misadventure . Since you said, and he said, you might have misunderstood.
I'm also not sure what we're discussing now. 
Can you explain what you mean by XP protections?
Sure, I'll do it in message so it doesn't offend people.
@Derp said:
A world of difference? Eh. They give you an edge, but not so much of one that they make it impossible for other people to one-up you.
Maybe we're splitting hairs here, but being able to roll Brawl and Weaponry with 8-again as a Level 1 Gift seems to grant more than a slight edge to Rahu in close combat. If you think that's a small edge, consider that the Gift of Strength (Purity) also bumps your Strength by your Purity score.
