Comic book diversity

[fatefan]

@SG Short answer: kind of.

SPOILERS?:
A sentient Cosmic Cube was involved.

As noted, it's about to kick off way more fully in the next few weeks.

[SparklesTheClown]

My official black person statement re: diversity in comics, is basically this entire Cracked article:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/one-quote-that-explains-why-comics-suck-at-diversity/

[ThatGuyThere]

@fatefan said in Comic book diversity:

SPOILERS?:
A sentient Cosmic Cube was involved.

I have not been reading anything Marvel for a few years but as soon as the storyline started I said it would cosmic cube shenanigans. After all Marvel has done but Cap and Falcon being mind controlled by the Cube before.
I thought the story was lame from the beginning not because of Cap is a Anzi but because there was one glaringly obvious way that it was going to flow.

[fatefan]

@ThatGuyThere Yeah, as soon as Marvel employees' one steadfast comment was "it's not mind control!" everyone unanimously realized it would have to be ludicrous alternate reality crap, and the Cosmic Cube is definitely the path of least resistance for a Cap comic to deal with alternate realities.

[Trundlebot]

@HelloProject said in Comic book diversity:

My official black person statement re: diversity in comics, is basically this entire Cracked article:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/one-quote-that-explains-why-comics-suck-at-diversity/

In addition to +1'ing this, I would also add that the form of narrative media, especially spec-fic, in the past couple of decades has been steadily shifting towards 1) Big Dumb Epics as the default and almost obligatory plot structure (everything has to be leading to some big central plot resolution that explains and resolves everything and saves the world from being blowed up etc..) and 2) Surprising the audience as the paramount goal of the writers. Usually a far more important goal than actually coherent and consistent world or character building.

There are problems with these trends in general, but they're especially a problem in the American comic book industry, aka, as it relates to super-heroes, because these are not the actual strengths of super-hero stories. The day to day saving-some-nice-old-lady-from-muggings stuff is actually what defines a superhero and sets them apart from any other generic speculative-fiction hero. I mean, I guess the costumes and aliases are part of it, but they don't work by themselves, they only solidify part of the tradition of superhero as crime-fighter; in a slightly more advanced school maybe evil fighter, in a broader sense, like you can have a superhero tackle political corruption, corporate predation etc..

But the form of the super-hero story is such that they are and should be primarily concerned with their job and not a single easily definable, well-demarcated and doable task. Superman's job isn't over when he defeats Lex Luthor, even assuming Luthor won't escape. Batman's job isn't over when he defeated the Joker, even if the Joker is dead. A superhero's job is more nebulous- to fix society, according to whatever meaning that has to that particular superhero. That especially doesn't lend itself well to the sort of condensation that Big Dumb Epic Plots do of making a single Big Bad whose defeat will restore goodness and order etc.. This is why it is dumb to gripe that Batman should just kill the Joker. Batman's enemy isn't the Joker, it's crime, it's violence, it's the powerful preying on the weak. Yeah, locking up the Joker seems futile when you know he'll just escape again, but the entire crusade is largely futile anyway. It can't actually be won or completed, even by heroes that do kill like the Punisher or Wolverine or whoever. In both cases you end up having to ask questions about whether the crusade itself isn't actually causing more problems than not, whether the "hero" isn't becoming a social problem of the same order as the things they fight against. You can't do that with some big evil alien overlord that's going to wipe out humanity or whatever, obviously that outcome is a whole lot worse than just trying to stop it.

I guess the surprise thing is less structural maybe, just that it's become such a pathetic and self-satirizing go-to at this point, starting with the "Death of Superman" and reaching its apex with the death-of-Captain-America-no-really-you-guys-we-mean-it-this-time-for-reals

[SparklesTheClown]

@Trundlebot I definitely agree with you here. Like, it seems as if the Big Two of comics do this thing where they lose focus and have become obsessed with these huge storylines (though DC keeps claiming that they're going to focus less on that, as they've been claiming since the creation of Nu52).

Hilariously, Marvel/DC comics have actually taken on the basic structure of Power Ranger seasons. IE: Big threat is introduced, an extended period of time is spent trying to resolve said threat, then all is well until the next season where a new set of people have to take on the big threat.

Some seasons have done a great job of bringing back the old school "side" threats, threats not necessarily directly related to the main villain, or having multiple main villains with their own motivations and desires.

But big Marvel/DC epics are pretty much, in essence, a very standard Power Ranger season. Which I say as someone who has at this point seen at -least- 23 seasons. A lot of the time, they aren't really serving us what we come to superheroes for. I think this is why lesser known companies are growing in popularity (I absolutely love Boom comics).

It's not so much that these lesser known publishers deliver on the traditional superhero arcs that seem so difficult to find these days, it's more that they release a comic, set expectation, and then deliver on that expectation. Meanwhile, Marvel/DC have this tendency to just wildly shift in tone, expectations, and sometimes even the established personality and values of a character. It's just feels more like a chore than a relaxing hobby.

Something like Boom comics just feels like a goddamned breath of fresh air, where you can buy a comic, read it, and go "Oh, that was nice", without the entire comic being like "Buy this other comic if you wanna know what happened!" like 6 times in a single issue.

[Arkandel]

@HelloProject Did you read what Deadpool's director said about the sequel right after the first movie became a success? I can't be bothered to track down the link right now, but he spoke of this push in the industry to make follow-up works bigger and flashier, to have the plot baloon up from saving the girl into saving the city, then saving the world, then saving the universe! Or to add characters, more villains, more stuff to use up the expanded budget... which takes away from movies, it doesn't add to them.

The same principle applies to comics, just without the budget. In some ways it's self-serving - writers and editors in chief get more exposure, their names are out there more to advertise these big blockbuster events no one reads any more, they create storylines they hope to make viral and sell a few more issues through controversy ("Captain America is a HYDRA agent!") which is a tactic that used to work before it became first the norm then a tired cliche ("No More Spider-man" or Elektra's death were innovative stories at their time, then it went to "Death of Superman", then... then it became a 'is it Tuesday again?' when the latest superhero died or the universe was at stake, you know?).

I don't really know that it's the repetitive nature of the big two's comics. I'd personally love to read good stories about the superheroes I'm familiar with. But who are they? Take Marvel - Peter Parker isn't a lovable, relatable loser trying to make ends meet, he's a CEO or something? Thor is Jane Foster, Iron-Man is dead (I think?), Captain America is... you know, Fantastic Four isn't even being published, and that's just major characters who're in movies.

I don't know what's going on there or what their strategy is, but if I want to read about completely new characters why wouldn't I go read an independent publisher's stuff instead? They're throwing away the only real advantage they have - recognizable characters with a rich, established history between them.

[Ganymede]

@HelloProject said in Comic book diversity:

Something like Boom comics just feels like a goddamned breath of fresh air, where you can buy a comic, read it, and go "Oh, that was nice", without the entire comic being like "Buy this other comic if you wanna know what happened!" like 6 times in a single issue.

I'd really like it if comic books learned from other mediums. They don't. And that's a problem: times are a-changin', and the industry is not keeping up.

A pity.

[Paris]

@Thenomain said in Comic book diversity:

@Arkandel

I'm surprised he thought he could get away with hiding essentially hate speech in front of a bunch of nerds.

He's now doubling down and ranting about offended Disney jew bosses, so he's really not doing himself any favors.

@HelloProject There are so many good alternative publishers now. Image, IDW, Boom, Aspen, even Valiant's coming out with good books. Many of which are very diverse, and many of their readers switched away from the big two to these publishers in part for that diversity.

[Arkandel]

By the way, I was curious and bored enough so I went through Civil War 2 and the recent Captain America retconstory arc.

I just caught up all the way to Secret Empire #0. You know, it's not bad.

At least I like it more than the DC stuff which at this point I don't even know what the fuck is happening at all, Rebirth made my head hurt trying to keep up with the Flash stuff alone.

[The Tree of Woe]

@Arkandel Read WW: Rebirth instead. I don't know what the hell's going on but it is fucking awesome. Circe just popped up and opened a can of whoop-ass on two gods.