Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed)

[bored]

@Arkandel If you're replying with actually constructive intent (toward me, not her), feel free to point out where you feel like my posts only have the value of being discouraging to her. That's not my intent.

I'm being totally honest when I say that I point out problems because... I dunno, sometimes people have blinders on about this shit. I mean, she's making a game where some people will be magic whatsits. But not all of them? That immediately means she really has to consider carefully how she's allotting these characters, the effects of any demographic division (even Firan couldn't successfully run 'multiple cities'), etc. If she wants to pretend those aren't potential game-killer issues, that's her business, but I don't think I'm a monster for bringing them up.

[surreality]

@il-volpe said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

I agree with @bored in the sense that I want to play pirates, but don't want to play pirates-and-mermaids.

The difference is, you did so without suggesting there's anything shady or illicit going on, and you didn't leap into a pile of negative assumptions about the most trite aspects of anything that has been referenced.

It doesn't offend me in the slightest if somebody doesn't like something that I know going in is absolutely and intentionally a weird niche concept game.

What does offend me, and is in fact offensive as fuck, is this:
There is not a game yet.
There is not a staff yet, beyond one person who volunteered to ensure that if someone ever has even the slightest issue with me and would feel uncomfortable bringing it up, there is someone with a proven track record in the community as being trustworthy and straightforward to whom they can bring their concerns without fear of reprisal. (There's no need for that fear, but since people still have it, there you go, there's somebody there just for that.)
Despite these facts, there are already accusations that only 'staff friends' will get anything shiny. Seriously? THERE IS NOT EVEN A STAFF YET.

@bored If I posted a thread about the entirety of 'my vision', it would not have been a thread that began thusly:

@surreality said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

It is the most honest title I could come up with. It's what it says on the tin.

A few quick disclaimers:

• I'm only kinda crowdsourcing here on select weird questions. (This is not intended as a free-for-all dogpile of every wishlist item anyone ever wanted in a game to get thrown in phrased as a requirement.)
• No, nothing's ready to get looked at yet. (Yes, I'll post when it is, promise.)
• Some stuff is already carved in stone. (And, well, deal with it, because it isn't changing.)
• I will totally add more disclaimers don't you test me! <fist-shake> (Ahem.)

General vibe of the project is as follows:

And what follows is a very random list of basic elements with zero detail and a lot of random humor.

If that was 'the totality of my vision', well, that game would have been built in under two weeks.

If you've shown me anything, @bored, it's that no matter how detailed I am when writing help files or instructions, there's going to be somebody who decides to just skip that bit and reinterpret things as they choose, but this, I'm afraid, is not new news.

I don't think you're trying to scuttle anything here for your sake or @Lisse24's, either, but I do not consider it unreasonable to ask that you please keep the questions about theme/setting/inspirations to a dull roar when I have said "that's not ready for prime time yet, when it is, it will be posted". The irony of it all is, the specific things you've been citing about the reason you hate those themes are -- guess what -- something we agree about. I am not interested in an end of the world plot. I'm not interested in actual Lovecraftian mythos. I am not interested in aliens from Atlantis or undersea aliens at all, actually.

I am not and have not asked for positivity only, so that's another fun accusation to add to the pile, I guess. I asked for people to stick to the questions asked, and that I was neither prepared nor interested in going into the laundry list of wishlist or bane items that appear in every thread about any potential new game at this time.

And for what it's worth, '...I see no reason to include anything with tentacles' is a valid and useful reply. I was thinking less Davy Jones' beard than stuff like this:

...but if nobody wants that sort of thing, yes, please say so and spare me the time it would take to write it up!

[Roz]

@bored Maybe, like, she's already done a lot of consideration about that point and also talked to a variety of people privately? Maybe she hasn't yet gotten to the point of wanting to throw that aspect through the wringer of opinions? Maybe any number of things that don't involve her not wanting to hear opinions on that particular aspect that don't actually mean she's pretending they aren't potential game-killers?

As I said, the issue isn't negativity. It's just being off-topic for the stated topic of the thread.

[Arkandel]

@bored said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

@Arkandel If you're replying with actually constructive intent (toward me, not her), feel free to point out where you feel like my posts only have the value of being discouraging to her. That's not my intent.

I'm being totally honest when I say that I point out problems because... I dunno, sometimes people have blinders on about this shit.

I think you're missing the point here.

The point isn't whether what you're doing (and which I did, I'm not blaming you specifically) is atypical for MSB standards. I'm just saying it's unwelcome within the thread's scope - it was made for a reason, to address specific questions, which neither of us provided.

So why do it? There's no need for us to aggravate each other here. If we have strong opinions about an issue of which such a thread is a subset we can make a new thread and put our thoughts about it there. Criticism in particular doesn't make the same kind of sense when someone's asking "how do I do <X>"; it does makes sense if they're asking "should I do <X>".

[Ghost]

@surreality said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

...but if nobody wants that sort of thing, yes, please say so and spare me the time it would take to write it up!

Note: I will be personally Samurai-Copping people who say no, because FUCK YEAH, BUDDY! I'm excited about this one.

But in the interests of backing up @surreality and her wishes, please don't let the threat of me Samurai-Copping you deter you from honesty.

[bored]

@surreality Again, while you insist on continuing to read my reference to a very common and obvious MU trope as a personal accusation that HEY GUYS SURR IS CORRUPT, I can't help you. Like, you are bending over backwards to insist that I hate you and I'm accusing you of whatever and it's ridiculous. I can't help you with that level of internalized expectated negativity. That's on you, on this board, on whatever, but it's not on me. I am referencing a well-known issue with these kinds of characters. We wouldn't be having this discussion if it was Jedi, not your own fish people. But because they're your fish people, because it's your idea, I'm obviously slandering you and OMG what a jerk.

And no, it's not unreasonable to ask that we keep it on focus. But you engaged me for several posts on the topic. Some of it was actually constructive, in the sense you clarified how things would work where I may have misunderstood something, though it didn't change either of our opinions. I think we really could have left it at that; I would have left it at that if your first reply today had been 'Ok, your opinion is your opinion but I love my fish monsters, lets talk about fish monsters.' Instead your first post today was, and this isn't even that much hyperbole: 'Look at this awful guy slandering me and accusing me of corruption! He is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with the hobby! Hive mind defend poor delicate Surr and her creativity!!!'

There's a two-way street to the 'lets keep on topic,' I guess is my point. I'm happy to leave you to discussing the merits of tentacles vs flippers and the very RP relevant issue referenced by my gif, but I can't do it while you're basically calling me a hateful monster, so plz stop.

@Roz If maybe she has, she should share with the class. It's only one of the... top 3? Issues of all of MUdom. If she's magically solved it, she should probably let us know.

@Arkandel Think I've covered it responding to her. I'm happy to leave it to the topic. I'm not happy being told that I'm what's wrong with the hobby and that I'm accusing her of vile evil.

[surreality]

Final clarification on grid design, which is not changing, if this is a deal-breaker for you, please move on:

I refuse to consider a single fish-only underwater bar as something even slightly detrimental to a game, which was the initial example provided. No, that example is not something I see as a problem, not even the tiniest of problems. Were this example a genuine problem of some kind, the very idea of a faction-only or sphere-only hangout would be anathema throughout the hobby, and yet they're everywhere, and serve a functional purpose.

I'll happily go on record to be clear: some areas will only be accessible or readily accessible by certain character types, members of certain factions, and so on. This is and has been the case on every single game on which I have ever played save for Shangrila and Akashat, and even Shangrila has some faction-only areas in which others are not permitted or are not permitted without a faction member escort.

The vast majority of the grid can be used at any time by the vast majority of characters without any fancy hoop-jumping involved.

[Ghost]

@bored said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

I'm happy to leave you to discussing the merits of tentacles vs flippers and the very RP relevant issue referenced by my gif

The one that questions where one​ puts their penis whilst entertaining a mermaid/merman/merperson/mirself caller?

The answer is: Pick a place, and if they like it, roll with it.

Edit: pardon my typos. Taking SQL backups while typing on phone. Don't wanna mention mermaid vaginae when I really mean 'SELECT * from...'

[surreality]

Because apparently 'how you fuck a fish person' is serious business:

• Some fish people have legs! (Read: More or less like you fuck a person with legs.)
• Most fish people can have legs for being on land. (Read: More or less like you fuck a person with legs.)
• If you want to fuck a fish person while they're a fish person, this is going to vary wildly.
  ** The dolphin people will be happy to help you figure this shit out.
  ** The whale people, well, you are going to have to get really creative.
  ** DO NOT TRY TO FUCK THE ANGLER FISH.
  ** Bring a friend if you're a chick hitting on a shark dude.
  ** If something has tentacles, just don't post the log on the wiki, please.
  ** That hole is not where you think it is, forget the kissing unless you're a contortionist.
  ** Most of these things lay eggs. Consult the chart below:
  

[Ghost]

@surreality and hey, COMMUNICATION IS ENCOURAGED.

When a landwalker and a merperson want to engage in sex, it's completely healthy to share with your partner how you like it. It's the only way to ensure both you and your partner are satisfied, and it shows that you care about their sex life, too.

But if they're slapping you repeatedly while coughing something out of their gills, you're probably not paying enough attention to their needs.

[bored]

Ok, all my actual questions are now answered.

[Meg]

... I don't even.

(I interrupted this whole thread for just that one line, yes. You're welcome. Carry on as you were.)

[surreality]

Continuing in the theme of 'am an enemy of joy':

• Alts are permitted.
• No sphere caps.
• No special-restricted-app-only character classes. If staff or staff's buddies can have a PC of it, so can absolutely anybody else.
• Alts are tentatively capped at 5 (it will not go lower than this, I'm resisting suggestions for higher as well but it will not go lower than this) with the usual CoI rules in place. You can only play one of any type of thing, unless it's a Mundane Human; you can have five Mundane Humans if you want, provided you stick to the CoI rules you have to stick to anyway. You can say 'fuck the humans, they suck!' and play five different kinds of fish people if you want.
• Actual historical figures are not allowed as PCs but may be referred to in backgrounds. (I got raided by Blackbeard! I lost a drinking contest to Mary Read! Etc.)
• Backgrounds are actually not required, since it only asks for a brief overview of the character and what you want to be doing with them! ...but you can write one for extra starting points if you feel like it. (This last added simply because I knew the moment I mentioned backgrounds someone would ask.)

p.s. In totally unrelated news I am really kinda disturbed that there was a chart I could reference about fish sex so readily available.

[bored]

The chart is basically the (not included) punchline to the gif, so it's kind of a bonus.

[Arkandel]

@surreality said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

You can say 'fuck the humans, they suck!'

Look, it's racist to post a thread about only one kind's sexual biology. Where's the human-fucking chart?

[Ghost]

@bored
"I've got your punchline right here, Bub."

[bored]

I'm glad you're enjoying continuing to contribute usefully to the thread, @Ghost

[Ghost]

@bored Enjoying it? Nope. Finding decent Samurai Cop gifs to counter troll you is hard work, dawg.

[Seraphim73]

@surreality Ookay, that Octopus-woman is pretty dang cool, I have to admit, even as someone who wasn't on-board with the tentacle-y thing to start with. I'm curious how her people would interact with shore-dwellers, but I know that octopi can crawl across land and you mentioned shapeshifting magic earlier, so I suppose that's not a big stumbling block.

Not really on-topic, just a note that I take back some of my earlier 'meh'ness about tentacle-people, and wish I had better suggestions for names for your crustaceans.

[bored]

@Ghost I'm not sure I understand what samurai cop is supposed to indicate, but I guess confusion is a similar emotional reaction to annoyance?