Interest Check: Assassin's Creed (CofD/2nd Ed) Game?

[Wizz]

@ShelBeast
I'm not seeing anything that suggests that their focus is "social" gaming or that the simulations are supposed to be massively multiplayer. Their releases are all from the same POV -- "Liberation" is from the POV of Aveline de Grandpré, so everyone who buys an Animus console and plays Liberation is playing as Aveline.

The part you're referring to is basically the same:

In the future, the company hopes to open "sample collection" locations, where individuals can donate samples of their genetic code to the Abstergo system, allowing the company access to exciting new scenarios locked away within DNA. These genetic memories would then be explored by research analysts, and, if deemed good investments, would go into production.

They're just looking for an interesting new release, so if a blacksmith had a particularly interesting life they'd release "Blacksmith: The Smithening" where every end user who runs the simulation from his or her console experiences segments from the life of Blackie the Blacksmith. It's still not a persistent multiple-user simulation.

ETA: Like, I'm sure the technology to DO that, just completely simulate a city at a specific time with details gleaned from these POVs to make it authentic and then host it on a server that the Animus consoles could all log into couldn't really be that much more of a stretch from what the consoles are doing...but it's not what the Animus does in the actual source material, and some completely fictional massive historical simulation doesn't really serve the Templar's purposes at all. The life sims and individual consoles produced by Abstergo's subdivision are just sort of an accidental byproduct of their research that coincidentally will make them a ton of money, it's not the reason they developed the technology in the first place.

And that's really the heart of the issue, that once you stretch it that much there's really no reason to be using the AC IP. The Assassin's Creed series isn't about the simulations, it's about the epic ancient conflict between Assassins and Templars, free will versus control, etc. etc. etc. The simulations are set dressing that you want to make the focus of the game, but that's like making a Star Trek game that only takes place on this one ship's Holodeck and is only about the holograms they run there.

If you want a game that is about the simulations themselves, why not just make an original sci-fi game? It's not like it's a bad idea in itself. Or hey, if you really want to base it off an IP that is also kind of about the simulation as much as it is about the characters & events inside it, why not go with like, Westworld? (Or The Thirteenth Floor if you wanna get super obscure!)

[WildBaboons]

The acts of caine series has a similar theme and practically screams out to be a Mu when you're reading them.

[Bobotron]

@ShelBeast
Why use CofD? Because it's known to many MU*ers?

[Ominous]

@WildBaboons I had not heard of this series. It's a similar idea to Lovecraft's Dreamlands, I think.

[Goldfish]

I didn't read the other replies but I'm totally here for this.

[ShelBeast]

@Bobotron said in Interest Check: Assassin's Creed (CofD/2nd Ed) Game?:

@ShelBeast
Why use CofD? Because it's known to many MU*ers?

Pretty much. And I think it does have all the necessary components to make it work for an AC game, just generally speaking.

[Ganymede]

@ShelBeast said in Interest Check: Assassin's Creed (CofD/2nd Ed) Game?:

Pretty much. And I think it does have all the necessary components to make it work for an AC game, just generally speaking.

Depends on how you see conflicts working, I think.

CoD has a slow combat system. FS3 is suited for PRPs and large-scale combat because its combat machine requires zero discretion. FS3, I feel, is better for games that intend to be PRP-heavy.

[ShelBeast]

@Ganymede

This may be. I have absolute zero experience with FS3, though. I'm not really all that involved in the MU* scene. I come from a tabletop RPG background, and so I tend to gravitate towards games based around the tabletop RPGs that I play RL.

Does FS3 take care of things outside of combat? My understanding was that it was just that. Investigation and research should be a big thing in an AC game. inventiveness also always plays a big part of the game, so crafting should be a thing. Lastly, AC games are typically, at least, some part political thriller, so social maneuvering and such should be reflected as well.

I'm assuming the BSG game you mentioned earlier uses FS3. How do they handle resolutions for actions outside of combat?

[faraday]

@ShelBeast said in Interest Check: Assassin's Creed (CofD/2nd Ed) Game?:

Does FS3 take care of things outside of combat?

If you're looking for specific code/mechanics for things like investigation or research, then no - there's nothing like that. Outside of combat, it falls back to more of just a freeform roll system, which is not dissimilar to most tabletop RPGs I'm familiar with (FUDGE, Fate, Shadowrun, Cortex, 7th Sea...) There are some guidelines for the types of games FS3 is suited for.

[Ganymede]

@ShelBeast said in Interest Check: Assassin's Creed (CofD/2nd Ed) Game?:

Does FS3 take care of things outside of combat? My understanding was that it was just that. Investigation and research should be a big thing in an AC game. inventiveness also always plays a big part of the game, so crafting should be a thing. Lastly, AC games are typically, at least, some part political thriller, so social maneuvering and such should be reflected as well.

It can, actually. At least, it's not functionally different from CoD in that respect.

In CoD, an Investigation consists of making a roll to obtain Clues. If you get enough Clues, the puzzle comes together. With FS3, you can do a simple roll to determine success, and use the rating of the success to figure out how many Clues are obtained. Not really different.

In CoD, social maneuvering involves the opening of Doors. You make a roll with relevant social stats to determine how many Doors are opened per attempt. Again, you can do this with FS3 by either having a simple roll or a contested one. Not really different.

The difference between BSG:U and what you may need is that BSG:U's stats focused almost entirely on combat abilities. Sure, there's Stealth and Technician and Composure, but it's mostly about the pew-pew-pew. Contrast that with Fifth Kingdom, which uses FS3 (an older version), and it has Action Skills for Politics, among other things.

The advantage that FS3 has over a CoD game is the combat engine. FS3 lacks the crunch and customization of CoD, mind, but it can work for what you want. (Despite @faraday's protest, in my opinion.)

[faraday]

@Ganymede said in Interest Check: Assassin's Creed (CofD/2nd Ed) Game?:

The advantage that FS3 has over a CoD game is the combat engine. FS3 lacks the crunch and customization of CoD, mind, but it can work for what you want. (Despite @faraday's protest, in my opinion.)

The reason I think it doesn't work well (which is not the same as 'can't work') comes down to what you consider an action skill. Once you start including a half-dozen crafting skills and a half-dozen social/political skills and a half-dozen different weapon skills (because in a fantasy setting people are normally unsatisfied with just "Melee" and "Firearms") ... now all of a sudden your action skill list is 30 skills long. And oh by the way, a lot of those skills are things that everyone knows to some extent or another (like Persuasion). That makes chargen more complicated, blows the mix-maxing thing up to epic proportions, and dilutes the difference between Action and Background skills (which is a hallmark of FS3). It can be done, sure. That doesn't mean it's the best way to go.

[ShelBeast]

I will say that the link provided earlier to explain FS3 does state that it's best used for firearms combat and such. A lot of AC takes place in times before the "suggested" periods/settings that the FS3 Engine would be ideal for. It specifically says that it's not as good for fantasy... Which, while I wouldn't classify AC as "fantasy", I'd say that the focus on melee combat and control through gadgetry (as an analogue to wizardry), would kind of make it fall into the same line.

Thoughts?

[faraday]

@ShelBeast Various games have used it for fantasy settings. It has rough edges but that doesn't mean you can't make it work. You just have to examine what you want to accomplish with your game. Then you can weigh the pros/cons of trying to adapt a system that was fundamentally made for something else vs making your own.

Sometimes people have no coder and it's really not a choice for them. Putting a square peg into a round hole is sometimes better than not having a game at all

[skew]

Sounds neat. Holler if you need code help.

[Jennkryst]

Thread Necro because Assassin's Creed: Origins opens up new possibilities.