Information Storage Question

[Thenomain]

@Mercutio said in Information Storage Question:

@Thenomain
Certainly. That's why I stated them. I'm fairly certain you do (though not 100% of course - I am never 100% certain of such things).

Really, it wasn't until the fourth game line (Mage) that Reach hit the 8k lbuf limits. Haunted Memories was hitting the 4k lbuf limits of then Rhost about the same time. @Chime did amazing work unfolding the limitation not just by finding the one simple setting, but also how the search algorithm was not capable of handing the larger buffer size and critically crashing the game.

Teaching people how to use SQL is even harder than teaching them how to use TinyMUX. SQL is not just a different language, but a different system philosophy. Not all hosts have MySQL available, either, and setting up your own system takes almost the same dedication as setting up a MediaWiki server, so making a system that relies on it comes with far more speed-bumps than just going, "Screw it; I'll store everything on an attribute."

I've been whinging about folding SQLite into any of the Tinies for decades. But too lazy to learn how to do it myself. So.

--

Anyhow, the question was when would you ever use more than 32k lbuf. And now you know. Follow-up with blue and red lasers.

--

edit:

P.S. God-damnit, MUX. Get your act together.

I wouldn't mind going to Penn if it didn't have such a suck-ass channel system. Rhost is really the only option for Mux coders to stay Mux coders, since @Ashen-Shugar pretty much dumps kitchen sink ideas from both code-bases.

[ZekeTheG33k]

@Thenomain said in Information Storage Question:

I wouldn't mind going to Penn if it didn't have such a suck-ass channel system. Rhost is really the only option for Mux coders to stay Mux coders, since @Ashen-Shugar pretty much dumps kitchen sink ideas from both code-bases.

The latest build has an option USE_MUXCOM which gives you a built in patch to use mux-like user options. Couple that with Volund's Channel Management and it's actually not to bad, until you have to lock it. But I hacked in Channel Lock Objects for them.

[Thenomain]

@Seamus

When the system doesn't act like softcode (even if it's not), then I'll like it more. Having to escape certain characters drives me a little nuts.

It is a fine channel system; it's a very advanced version of the softcoded channel system from TinyMUSH long ago, but yes I'm used to the Mux system but I do think that it has key stability and usability advantages. It could use more function support, but that's a common statement about Mux.

[ZekeTheG33k]

@Thenomain Well if you want to be picky... lol

[Thenomain]

@Seamus said in Information Storage Question:

@Thenomain Well if you want to be picky... lol

Look in the mirror, sir. Are we not coders?!

[ZekeTheG33k]

@Thenomain said in Information Storage Question:

@Seamus said in Information Storage Question:

@Thenomain Well if you want to be picky... lol

Look in the mirror, sir. Are we not coders?!

That's it! I quit! You cannot point out flaws in my logic!

[Arkandel]

@Seamus said in Information Storage Question:

You cannot point out flaws in my logic!

This person codes.

[Thenomain]

@Arkandel said in Information Storage Question:

@Seamus said in Information Storage Question:

You cannot point out flaws in my logic!

This person codes.

Nah. This person is a middle manager.

[NightAngel12]

I'm inclined to ask what's sucky about the Penn channel system, because I've never seen any issues with it. What does MUX have in their channel system?

[ThatGuyThere]

Most likely nothing but a not small portion of players hate when the channel command is not what they expect, either needing a = or a + before the channel title.
My solution is always start with no prefix that trial and error til i get is right.

[faraday]

@NightAngel12 said in Information Storage Question:

I'm inclined to ask what's sucky about the Penn channel system, because I've never seen any issues with it. What does MUX have in their channel system?

Primarily, Mux channels in let you can create custom aliases for each channel. Whereas on Penn you're stuck with +h for help and whatnot. Mux also lets you 'say' commands to the chan so you can do 'help who' instead of @chan/who help

I really don't think it's a big deal objectively. But if you're used to the Mux way, the Penn way is frustrating. And vice versa.

[Ashen-Shugar]

@faraday said in Information Storage Question:

@NightAngel12 said in Information Storage Question:

I'm inclined to ask what's sucky about the Penn channel system, because I've never seen any issues with it. What does MUX have in their channel system?

Primarily, Mux channels in let you can create custom aliases for each channel. Whereas on Penn you're stuck with +h for help and whatnot. Mux also lets you 'say' commands to the chan so you can do 'help who' instead of @chan/who help

I really don't think it's a big deal objectively. But if you're used to the Mux way, the Penn way is frustrating. And vice versa.

I'm pretty sure that Mike/Talvo recently added MUX channel wrappers to the code so it can mimic (mostly) the MUX channel command syntax.

So most of these annoyances should no longer impact PennMUSH.

[Bobotron]

@Ashen-Shugar
They did. It's a default configuration for Penn now, but it IS just a wrapper, so I'm not sure how it interacts with other code?

[Thenomain]

The softcode or softcode-style parsing of special characters also makes me cringe. It's starting to make me cringe with 'say' and 'page' too, mind you. I want to have '%' be by default '%' and not need to escape it or use 'page/noeval'.

Haunted Memories had a soft-coded channel system and the number of times people would get befuddled by the parsing is in part my evidence that it gets in the way more than not.

Faraday has it otherwise correct. Code prefixes are on my short-list of things to axe (I now feel the frustration at typing '+map' instead of 'map', for instance), but being forced into a static channel naming scheme as well as the parsing gets under my skin enough that the trifecta of behaviors falls under "absolute bleh".

[Bobotron]

@Thenomain
FWIW it's not parsing those characters at all. It's just... treating them like channels (IE: not parsing them). I tested it with common ones and they don't parse, they just display when you use the muxcom-style channel aliases.

[ZekeTheG33k]

@Thenomain It's not soft code. It's a server side wrapper.

[Thenomain]

@Seamus said in Information Storage Question:

@Thenomain It's not soft code. It's a server side wrapper.

Asked and answered, your honor:

@Thenomain said in Information Storage Question:

The softcode or softcode-style parsing

I have no idea what Penn means by a wrapper, which is why I described—multiple times now—what I personally do not like about Penn’s chat. I think I am reasonably done with explaining myself, considering this part is now longer than the original post.

[ixokai]

@Thenomain said in Information Storage Question:

I have no idea what Penn means by a wrapper, which is why I described—multiple times now—what I personally do not like about Penn’s chat. I think I am reasonably done with explaining myself, considering this part is now longer than the original post.

Yeah, you've explained yourself.

And then didn't listen to anyone else.

@Seamus said its not softcode, there's no prefixes, you can add channel aliases like MUX. @Bobotron explained that those characters are not parsed.

I don't know either of these things for facts myself, I wouldn't use Penn if you paid me, but its not everyone else having trouble listening here, man.

[faraday]

@ixokai said in Information Storage Question:

I don't know either of these things for facts myself, I wouldn't use Penn if you paid me, but its not everyone else having trouble listening here, man.

I think people are missing the part where @Thenomain said:

The softcode or softcode-style parsing of special characters also makes me cringe. It's starting to make me cringe with 'say' and 'page' too, mind you. I want to have '%' be by default '%' and not need to escape it or use 'page/noeval'.

That's the softcode or softcode-style parsing he's talking about. It's not that the channel stuff is written in softcode. It's that it treats your channel comments like softcode by default. Which leads to having to do some weird backflips to escape things sometimes.

[ixokai]

@faraday said in Information Storage Question:

@ixokai said in Information Storage Question:

I don't know either of these things for facts myself, I wouldn't use Penn if you paid me, but its not everyone else having trouble listening here, man.

I think people are missing the part where @Thenomain said:

The softcode or softcode-style parsing of special characters also makes me cringe. It's starting to make me cringe with 'say' and 'page' too, mind you. I want to have '%' be by default '%' and not need to escape it or use 'page/noeval'.

That's the softcode or softcode-style parsing he's talking about. It's not that the channel stuff is written in softcode. It's that it treats your channel comments like softcode by default. Which leads to having to do some weird backflips to escape things sometimes.

No, I get that completely and have from the beginning.

@Bobotron said it doesn't do that with the new mux aliases. Sure, say and pose does but so does it on MUX and every other server.