Looking for potential staff for a Colonial Marines (Aliens) game

[Ganymede]

@seraphim73 said in Looking for potential staff for a Colonial Marines (Aliens) game:

I think that much like many BSG games, there may be some tone issues, since much of the drama and tension in both BSG and Aliens comes from "OH MY GOD, WE'RE ALL DYING!" and that doesn't tend to happen on MU*s (besides TGG) without copious NPC blood being spilled, but I think that a solid storytelling staff/playerbase can get around that.

There's really little thematic difference between BSG games and a Colonial Marine survival game. Similarly, there's little difference between BSG games and Mass Effect, except for the really hot alien sex cut-scenes.

[Seraphim73]

@ganymede They have those on BSG too, except they just substituted robots for aliens.

And the alien sex scenes in Aliens aren't very hot, unless you're really into facehuggers.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

I think you could impose relatively high risk on a game like this (just say if you get KO'd and are out of Luck points, you're 4realz dead). To me, it's more a matter of staff deciding whether or not they want that kind of environment (I'd play it! But I liked the atmosphere on TGG).

[Auspice]

There's already discussions on ways to enhance the 'OH GOD THEY KILLED KENNY YOU BASTARDS' beyond hoping people can give a damn about an NPC that was in two ST poses.

Because this is a thing I care much about and I think I've even had discussions with @Seraphim73 in the past on it.

[faraday]

@three-eyed-crow Yeah, the combat system doesn't say "you're dead" but staff can always implement whatever house rule strikes their fancy and tune the lethality numbers to whatever level of deadliness they like.

But I think that players should work harder too to react as their character would to NPCs being killed. Your character knew them, lived with them, hung out with them, and then watched them get killed right before their eyes. Even if the NPC never had a name before that scene... ICly their death should matter to the characters.

[Seraphim73]

I would be totally down for that too, @Three-Eyed-Crow. I don't mind losing a character now and then, especially if they a) live just long enough to give some dying words, or b) go out in a big boom (or a spray of acid, I suppose).

@Auspice, I think we should have those discussions again (maybe not on this thread). Because I think it's a very valuable thing for a game to have characters (and players too) invested in NPCs as well as the other PCs around them.

@faraday, yes please. I've noticed that it's often hard for players to get into the world of their character, especially if it's radically different from the real world. That goes for everything from caring about the NPCs around your character to their whole outlook on life. Like, if your character grew up in a time of strife, and the generation ahead of you was much-more-than-decimated while you were still just coming of age, you're going to have a very different outlook on life than if you grew up in the 80s in the United States of America.

I just find it fascinating to get into the headspace of people who grew up in a different time/place than I did.

[Ghost]

I don't mind losing a character now and then, too

[faraday]

@seraphim73 Totally. And, I mean - I get it. As an audience, it's hard to make yourself care about RedShirt#72. As a player, you don't want to be all maudlin all the time crying over the latest NPC that bought it. But I think if you want to capture the wartime 'feel' you just have to do it. Killing off PCs isn't some magic bullet either. For every really 'impactful' PC death on TGG (and there were some, sure), there were a whole bunch of other ones that registered about as much as Redshirt#72.

[Seraphim73]

@faraday Yup!

I have now decided that any time a named NPC from my PC's unit is introduced into a scene (wherever I play), I'm going to immediately come up with one connection between my PC and that NPC. Maybe my PC owes them $5 from a poker game, maybe they once accidentally saw each others' junk while taking a leak, maybe it wasn't accidentally... I don't know... but there'll be some connection there.

And yes, I do know that I basically just challenged you to load up any scene I'm in with NPCs...

[Auspice]

When NPCs are regularly used and then die, it's easier. However, it's hard to keep track of a catalog of NPCs. Some people will reference specific ones on the regular (like me with Pitbull on BSG:U), but it's pretty much 'old hat' for an ST to whip out some NPCs special use for a scene to kill them off.

And it's hard to dredge up those fucks to give. I try. I find it easier to slip into those other mindsets (but then, as an author, it's why I RP; to explore other character types, upbringings, etc. to help my writing). But when I'm writing a screenplay or novel, I know the deaths coming, I can weave in the characters involved, it's not just...

'Anderson died and plz remember you knew him for the past year!'

[Jennkryst]

@ganymede said in Looking for potential staff for a Colonial Marines (Aliens) game:

@jennkryst said in Looking for potential staff for a Colonial Marines (Aliens) game:

Throw it into the BattleTech MUX engine! Because that will never go wrong, right?!?

Do you have access to this? Because I would so run a Battletech game in a second. Kind of.

I do not. Also, they are very much less Role-play, as 'simulate being in a mech cockpit and go blow up things'... in real time. Every second ticking down your weapon cooldown, and so on. I always WANTED to do a mechwarrior RP MU with this as the combat method, but I dunno how it would work out.

[Seraphim73]

@auspice Right. I don't think that every NPC death (especially if they were just introduced for the one scene) needs to be a tragedy, but there should be some acknowledgement. I mean, yes, many units in WW2 took 200% casualties over a short period of time, so the guy who just caught a bullet next to you might be someone you'd never spoken more than 2 words to, and you probably don't care much, but they were still someone who was supposed to be providing covering fire for you.

The people who have been your character's ECO for a dozen missions obviously matter more than the guy who owned you $5 from the poker game, and the two deaths should totally be treated differently. I'm just suggesting that more ties to the setting (including the NPCs) are better.

[bored]

I'd definitely be for a bit more death in a game like this. It's one of the things that always had me inevitably lose interest in BSG games, because after the first couple scenes 'omg we survived' stops having much weight. Yeah, NPCs go, and you can and should be RPing the impact of it, but again, it's a matter of how long you can keep it up. Real risk just adds another layer of psychological stimuli that can really push the RP. Yeah yeah, we're all authors, but (good) authors write from and capture real experience and emotion so OOCly meaningful moments in RP help supply that.

And while the inevitable argument is that no one will like RPing that... between TGG and freaking Firan, people obviously have gotten into those kind of setups.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@bored said in Looking for potential staff for a Colonial Marines (Aliens) game:

And while the inevitable argument is that no one will like RPing that... between TGG and freaking Firan, people obviously have gotten into those kind of setups.

I think people forget what a small game TGG was. Some people got into it a lot (I was one of them), but even at its height it was never huge, and I figure the character death was a part of that (as much as the historical setting was/the frequently changing campaigns were/etc.). Firan I can't really speak for, but I would assume the generational aspect of it (if you're going to die of old age within the course of a game, other kinds of death become more acceptable), and the roster where you could just grab a new character right after being randomly gacked, helped with things.

I'm pretty neutral on character death, myself. I enjoy the risk but think there are other ways to generate meaningful drama (and, honestly, I stop caring about the guy who churns through 5 PCs a month even more quickly than I stop caring about NPCs).

[bored]

@three-eyed-crow Well, Firan was huge and often lethal on pretty large scales, but yeah, it did have some other characteristics.

So you're right, it might not promote a huge game. But we talk a lot about quality vs. quantity here, so that's not necessarily what should be the only goal. There are also probably ways to tune the lethality a bit so that people can volunteer for it or avoid it. IE, flag specially dangerous missions for being so, and let the high risk folks throw themselves at those if they want.

Anyway, I'm definitely not promoting this as a right-way/wrong-way kind of situation, it's obviously not that and I like the idea enough I'd play either way. Just expressing that I think there is some desire out there for a more lethal setting and that it could help keep it fresh in ways that some games in related genres struggle with.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@bored said in Looking for potential staff for a Colonial Marines (Aliens) game:

So you're right, it might not promote a huge game. But we talk a lot about quality vs. quantity here, so that's not necessarily what should be the only goal. There are also probably ways to tune the lethality a bit so that people can volunteer for it or avoid it. IE, flag specially dangerous missions for being so, and let the high risk folks throw themselves at those if they want.

Oh, yeah, I'm not bringing it up as a negative. I just think TGG has kind of a reputation, whenever it comes up, as more popular than it was at the time. There was more dedicated core than mass appeal. I think players tend to assume/talk like they're more gung-ho about character death than they actually are when it's them dying, and any game-runner is going to have to be prepared for that. But I agree there's an audience for it that's not necessarily served right now (I'm probably part of it, which is in part why this idea interests me).

[Auspice]

My concept is to offer up specialty characters (either via roster, randomized stats, or both) that are played with the knowledge that the bit will die at an ST's discretion.

You get a sort of 'bonus' alt, are encouraged to play them freely with everyone else, but someday they will die.

To me, this means you can skip out on raising lethality for other PCs too high (thus removing worry for the people who can't stand the idea of losing a bit) and you have a measure of control (since it's at ST discretion when it happens) over the people who will kill off a new one on a regular basis just for dramz.

The way I see it (obvs policies would need to be fleshed out) is that you'd play for 3+ months before any potential death. Enough time to play with people outside of +events/plot and foster those relationships.

[Arkandel]

@auspice I don't know that I'd take up on that offer, or even that I like it, but it's fascinating.

[Auspice]

@arkandel said in Looking for potential staff for a Colonial Marines (Aliens) game:

@auspice I don't know that I'd take up on that offer, or even that I like it, but it's fascinating.

It's not something I'd recommend for every game, but I think for an Aliens game? It'd be just about perfect. That's a universe/setting with a lot of death and you'd be removing some of the atmosphere if you didn't have it.

And we've discussed how even the best of us are bad at reacting to NPC deaths.

[Misadventure]

I think it might be cool/fun if you could somehow make the history of a given unit sort of the goal. Sorta like having a achievements, including things like "Going in hot and overconfident" and "We didn't lose a single civvie (they were dead when we got there)" and "Shoot them? We nuked them!" and "Xenos not hostile, but colonists are" and "Carved the roast beast for Cindy Lou" etc. So that way even if a unit is completely wiped out you could have a little memorial page with the groups record on it.

Make the pain of loss into part of the story. Maybe have players suggest funny titles for how their or other characters went out.