Nov 29, 2017, 1:57 AM
@auspice We could do with more of those. Especially when it's corgis. Because there are never too many corgis. It is non-possible.
Regarding administration on MSB
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@auspice We could do with more of those. Especially when it's corgis. Because there are never too many corgis. It is non-possible.
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@Arkandel The issue there is that how much people are willing to give and take varies tremendously (and is not even always symmetrical). If you're going to put it in the rules you're going to have to find some kind of standard, and... well, you already have my feelings on how it shouldn't invalidate the ability to actually collectively point fingers at a perceived issue.
While we're on the topic, if we're going to be defining what is mod-able, can we maybe also consider rules about 'faux modding' type behavior, where regular posters start trying to meta-manage threads? (where we have a very good example here)
I'm not that convinced. There's no evidence of the people being involved having outstanding personal vendettas, or of anyone 'following anyone around' outside of the exact discrete 'one issue' that you mention. Its been event driven. There is a specific post being discussed here. People jumped on @ganymede too when she came in fast and hard (rawr?) with the initial wagon-circling that... presumably @Arkandel realized made them look like typical horribad staffers and reined that shit in. She hasn't continued, and hasn't received further scrutiny.
Also, it seems necessary to point out that a mod is not a normal poster. They are a person of public interest. That means that their behaviors are obviously going to be under general scrutiny. I think its far more reasonable to suggest that if they actually have an issue with that treatment that they might not be suited to the job, than that anyone who has trouble with one of the tiny number of mods should 'go make their own board.'
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@bored said in Regarding administration on MSB:
Also, it seems necessary to point out that a mod is not a normal poster. They are a person of public interest. That means that their behaviors are obviously going to be under general scrutiny.
I think you mean "greater" scrutiny.
This is an important point. This is something I think the three mods are trying to feel out.
Arkandel, Auspice, and I talk regularly over PM. We don't always agree. Sometimes we wait for a consensus to act. Sometimes we don't.
I'd have a new set of Rules of Engagement drawn up, but for the fact that my work days have been bitching, and, with the holiday season and having to prepare for it, I am very drained at the end of the day, and just feel like working out and singing karaoke.
I think what Thenomain was getting at before was that this thread -- all of it, the good, the bad, the ugly, the veiled insults, the kicking, the shoving, the shouting -- is good. And it's good because we're still doing it, posting up pictures of puppies, tossing in GIFs, and, at least from my perspective, getting a wide range of opinions and perspectives from the members.
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@ganymede Sure. That's all fair and I don't disagree. I'm a pessimistic sort by nature but I can see things being accomplished amidst all of this.
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@bored I don't think he's exclusively talking about behavior in regard to a mod or this specific situation.
I don't think anybody has any issue with a bunch of people saying, "This, this right here, this sucks a whole lot!"
It's still not cool for a group of posters to follow that person around from thread to thread for weeks, jumping their shit almost any time they post, and it is a thing that happens.
Oh fucking well.
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@surreality I don't think anyone disagrees that that is a thing that happens, but I don't think every time someone or several someones disagree with a person it is automatically because this is happening, and I continue to be concerned about the dogpile dogwhistle.
@Ganymede Man I wish I felt like working out and singing karaoke at the end of the day. I bet I'd be less fat and more in tune with popular music.
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MDMA got you feelin' like a champion /
The city never sleeps; better slip you an Ambien.“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@ganymede She's not gonna recognize that, but now it will be in my head the rest of the night.
#FreeFarfalla
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@meg accurate.
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@saosmash said in Regarding administration on MSB:
@Ganymede Man I wish I felt like working out and singing karaoke at the end of the day. I bet I'd be less fat and more in tune with popular music.
It's all about the right music with me. The right song hits on my walk home and I'll start running.
... for about a block and then an asthma attack kicks in and I'm wheezing and coughing and looking like a total idiot.
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@auspice said in Regarding administration on MSB:
It's all about the right music with me. The right song hits on my walk home and I'll start running.
For me, it's Lose Yourself or Through the Fire and the Flames.
Yes, my running speeds vary.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@saosmash Yeah, that's why I say I don't think a lot of people showing up in a single spot, regarding a single incident, and a single poster == dogpile (in any reasonable or actionably problematic way).
Sometimes, everybody just calls idiot at once at the same egregiously and transparently idiotic thing. I wouldn't call that dogpiling or even 'an issue', that's just a thing that happens every so often.
For instance, if someone actually did go to a game to troll it and be an ass there, and everybody collectively chimed into the thread to say: "That was shitty, not cool," I don't see an issue there.
There's some grey areas where people try to browbeat opposing opinions or preferences in some Not Cool ways, but that's not the same thing, either.
It's the 'following people around to give them shit over time' that's way less cool, and is definitely bullshit behavior.
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@ganymede said in Regarding administration on MSB:
@auspice said in Regarding administration on MSB:
It's all about the right music with me. The right song hits on my walk home and I'll start running.
For me, it's Lose Yourself or Through the Fire and the Flames.
Yes, my running speeds vary.
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@saosmash said in Regarding administration on MSB:
@Ganymede Man I wish I felt like working out and singing karaoke at the end of the day. I bet I'd be less fat and more in tune with popular music.
Why would you want to be in tune with popular music? Why not instead be in tune with good music?
They could be the same thing, but I've been getting drawn in to many new things thanks to Welcome To Night Vale's 'the weather'.
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@bored Belatedly, there are least three threads that I've seen so far in which @Auspice is given shit for the same post by the same people. Three threads. Only one of which is actually in the Hog Pit. For a post that wasn't even inflammatory or accusatory of anyone, that is absolutely excessive. I would absolutely call that a 'dogpile' considering its talked about in the thread the post was made in, then another thread is made in the Hog Pit to talk about it more, then its brought up here as well. None of the talk has been at all constructive about how else Auspice might have gone about it. How else she might have phrased it to not sound the way it did. Nothing. Nothing at all constructive about it. Not even a little. Instead there were more and more calls for her to be taken down as a mod for being unfit, and over something that would earn little more than a raised brow or slap on the wrist had it happened on a game rather than this forum. I would absolutely call that excessive and unnecessary. I find it simultaneously amusing and a bit horrifying that the three mods for a forum known for its reputation towards shit-flinging are being held to a higher standard than any staffer on any game anywhere.
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@miss-demeanor All I knew about was the original thread (where, to be fair, she stirred up conversation through a post that was, on top of everything discussed here, a huge necro) and this one. I would agree that multiple simultaneous threads on one person/topic could definitely be viewed as excessive and under current rules at least that first location is inappropriate due to it being an ad thread (though @Auspice is equally guilty of breaking policy here! Mods ignoring policy seems like another good reason for that person not to be a mod). Beyond that, given the strict hog/non-hog divide exactly two seems like it will be... very common? But more than that, sure.
Anyway, I think this thread has been reasonable and I am only really defending the conversation here. It shall continue to be my one-stop shop for all my 'the mods are literally the worst' (note, hyperbole for effect and not actual opinion) needs!
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@roz Go ahead & do what? I don't take any issue with MSB being modded; it doesn't affect me & I don't find any of the mods to be so unpleasant as to make their new job duties somehow detrimental to my time on MSB. Just because I shrug about people wanting mods doesn't mean I am going to storm out with my cape swishing from my shoulders because they're here and doing what people asked them to do. Please save your snarky, misplaced gifs for something relevant.
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@surreality said in Regarding administration on MSB:
I have said this before and will say it again. If I'm ever running a place, and it comes up on MSB, or a problem comes up on MSB... ? First, I'm gonna be upset that they didn't come to staff about it first, but at least I will become aware of the problem and can do something to solve it.
I had -- to the surprise of literally no one -- policy on this.
It went like so:
We don't care if you bitch about the game or the staff on game forums; that is not something we consider 'doing harm to the game or staff' and participants here should feel free to do so without fear of reprisal on the game itself.
If that's what it takes for us to find out there's an issue we can try to resolve for you somehow, that's what it takes. We'd rather you come to us if you have a problem, but understand some players are extremely wary about approaching staff at all due to negative experiences reporting an issue in the hobby, and thus might prefer to post something elsewhere as a sounding board or other outlet. We'd ultimately rather have a game with fewer problems than a public reputation for having no problems that only exists because no one spoke up somewhere, even if that somewhere isn't here.
Bear in mind, if you burn a bridge with another player by attacking them elsewhere in this way, we're not going to rebuild it for you. Similarly, if you spread nasty gossip about someone on skype or discord or a similar venue and it gets back to them -- and it always eventually does -- we're not going to demand they pretend it never happened, and we're not going to insist that they continue to interact with you if this is brought to us with a request to sever contact with you and your characters.
Stealing this, for if I ever actually do get a game going. But I'm Canadian, so I'm informing you in advance of the theft.
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@insomnia Please, steal at will.
