Reasons why you quit a game...
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@tez
I've actually found a lot of the things you've shared here to be very true. I don't have assss much experience as a lot of people here in leading in a MU setting (some), but I have a ton of experience working on, with, etc high performing and poor performing teams (with high and low performing individuals) in a work setting.A lot of the benefits you're describing, and interpersonal guidelines, were true there too.
We espoused and held each other accountable to:
- transparency
- direct communication and constructive criticism (there's a lot of stuff that goes into this, like agreeing on what this looks like)
- always give the benefit of the doubt, or, "default to trust" (huge)
- respect (I think the not talking about players, keeping it away from gossip, etc, falls into this territory)
We found that even if we had a great discussion about these tenets to begin with on a team, that if we didn't write them down, codify them, then they weren't really enforced as much. On the teams with well-intentions, this boiled down to them not being present in our minds. Reviewing such tenets when we did retrospectives or creating a reflex to refer to them when we felt ourselves backsliding in the moment was great to help everyone reset (sometimes it just helps when 80% of the time or more, people need to emotionally reset) to what was important and what we all wanted to strive towards. People make mistakes, forget, etc. To not account for this and think everyone is already on the same page has proven to be a naive assumption in those settings.
I think constantly revisiting is great. This is a never-ending thing. I think saying well staff just suck or people just suck is kind of a copout as a staffer (or someone interested in improving). So what if something looks like a brick wall; I'm going to smash through it!
Tez I'd really be interested in seeing what you guys have iterated on to piggyback on your progress so far.
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Sure:
http://lostandfound.riverdark.net/wiki/Staff_Policies
Full credit to Meg, Roz, and Sao for their work on it, both in the original draft, and some of the revisions. That is viewable on our wiki's policy page to all players.
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@ixokai said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
On the one hand, establishing what is right and good behavior is... right and good.
On the other, going heavy into [...]
And here's where need the human element. No matter what your rules, your culture starts at the top of the staff and goes all the way down. That, and anything can be used as a weapon to attack someone, or as a shield to defend yourself.
But if you're too loose with the rules, then they have no meaning.
What good starting guidelines do is establish intent, at least from my perspective. Once you can agree on intent, or have a (hopefully benevolent) dictator willing to enforce it, a lot of the rest follows.
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@tez man, that link on tone is so good. Can we make it required reading for all staffers everywhere.
#FreeFarfalla
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This has been very helpful to me, for Arx in particular.
http://thagomizer.com/blog/2017/09/29/we-don-t-do-that-here.html
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@meg said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
@tez man, that link on tone is so good. Can we make it required reading for all staffers everywhere.
I really do like that policy document; I think it's served well on all of the games that I've played on where it's been used. The games haven't been perfect, of course—and there have been times I've disagreed with staff's decisions—but I've always felt that I was respected as a player, and I think the tone guideline is very important to that
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@thenomain said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
What good starting guidelines do is establish intent
yesyesyes all kinds of yes
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@tez I like the transparency and that this is available to players. I wouldn't expect players to read it all, but the message it sends is...you /can/ hold us accountable. This is what we stand for. This is what you can expect from us, so if you're not seeing this, something is wrong.
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@apos said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
Now one important thing for staff. You'll hear through the grapevine about people quitting for wildly hypocritical reasons, absurd reasons, reasons based off of things factually untrue. I never think it's worth it to argue your point of view to anyone that's left for any reason. Never chase people. You can think about their concerns, work to address ones you thought were valid underneath the vitriol or hyperbole, and dismiss the ones that are unreasonable.
I never chase people, though I do try hard to look at it from their perspective, and more often than not it can still be thrown out.
This is the motto that made you my guru of....something or other. Participating in mu*s while still having a demanding reality.
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We have more than one thread on Soapbox about people talking about their demanding reality. I love it that’s people feel this place is safe enough to share. What they are not doing is using it as an excuse. Sometimes as an explanation, and sometimes to preface an apology, but not as an excuse.
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@kanye-qwest said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
This has been very helpful to me, for Arx in particular.
http://thagomizer.com/blog/2017/09/29/we-don-t-do-that-here.html
I like that one. In general I am a bit exhausted when people create these parallels between those staffing a game and those doing paid work. This was more 'here is an easy thing from our professional lives that we can also use in games'
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@gingerlily Yeah i don't think the author was thinking of games at all, but just how you can use established culture to shut down behavior without making it a big moral argument. As a staffer, I'm not trying to make players into better people, or win them over to my moral viewpoints. I just have specific things I don't want them to do/say in Arx.
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Yeah, it totally works as a useful tool without all the structure and language that I think creates too much parallel between designing/running a game for fun and paid professional work.
I've also liked both in work and online the "No is a complete sentence" strategy. I think for many women it can be very challenging to try: just flat out "No." without explanation or softening. I feel really weird whenever I try employing it but at least I'm practicing.
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@gingerlily Even I struggle with just saying "No" and not explaining. And I am among the most confrontational and blunt women I know of.
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@kanye-qwest said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
@gingerlily Even I struggle with just saying "No" and not explaining. And I am among the most confrontational and blunt women I know of.
Last week I was emailing back and forth about a lengthy meeting that was scheduled outside my work hours and trying to establish boundaries because cutting my caseload this year was a deliberate choice made for my health and my family. It doesn't work if we cut my caseload and work hours and then have me doing more paperwork, placement meets, and prep. I had all of these long paragraphs that I edited, trimmed, changed, tried again, and finally just said. "That does not work for me" (At first it had, 'I'm sorry' at the end but I deleted that.) Just hitting 'send' had me physically cringing...but it did the job. SO hard though, it boggles me.
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@gingerlily said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
I like that one. In general I am a bit exhausted when people create these parallels between those staffing a game and those doing paid work. This was more 'here is an easy thing from our professional lives that we can also use in games'
I don't see why I should expect less of staff of a game then I expect of professionals in a paid gig.
I expect volunteers at the local food pantry to behave professionally, too.
Not being paid isn't an excuse to not be professional, IMHO.
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I usually walk away when activity comes to a halt or staff decisions annoy me but I have left for one other reason.
Insular and/or unfriendly player base. When I log on and feel like I'm interrupting someone else's good time, I just log off and move on.
I'm a ridiculously shy roleplayer so some of this may be on me but I know the difference between "I'm too shy to ask for RP" and "If I ask for RP I'll be met with silence."
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@ixokai said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
@gingerlily said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
I like that one. In general I am a bit exhausted when people create these parallels between those staffing a game and those doing paid work. This was more 'here is an easy thing from our professional lives that we can also use in games'
I don't see why I should expect less of staff of a game then I expect of professionals in a paid gig.
because they are not paid professionals? I mean it's fine to have expectations, but...
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@kanye-qwest said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
@ixokai said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
@gingerlily said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
I like that one. In general I am a bit exhausted when people create these parallels between those staffing a game and those doing paid work. This was more 'here is an easy thing from our professional lives that we can also use in games'
I don't see why I should expect less of staff of a game then I expect of professionals in a paid gig.
because they are not paid professionals? I mean it's fine to have expectations, but...
I, in no way, equate "professional" with "paid".
I don't honestly even understand that POV: when I've seen it used, and I'm not saying you use it, its been more often then not used as an excuse for bad behavior. Oh, we're just volunteers.
I volunteer IRL some, and at the charity I volunteer for, professional behavior is absolutely expected. If someone does not, they are asked not to return.
In a game context, I really do expect staff to hold themselves to a professional standard. Maybe I'm unreasonable in doing so, I guess.
But, except for places/staff which are nuts, I find most do actually meet that standard. Or at least try to.
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@ixokai
I volunteer IRL, too (and I've done organizational stuff for book clubs/poker games/etc), and I have wildly different feelings/expectations/personal fulfillment about that experience and the people I do it with than I do about my IRL job and co-workers. I am one of those people who it grates whenever the term 'professional' is equated with hobby work. I get that it's inferring certain types of behavior (responsibility, commitment, etc) that I do think MU staff should have, but I get the knee-jerk reaction because I also have it.This has been a tangent. Back to your regularly scheduled thread, and such.
