@zombiegenesis said in Social Systems:
@wildbaboons said in Social Systems:
Agency is the big one here. Social stuff against NPCs all day, but no, I don't care how high you rolled on your manipulation/persuasion/whatever roll. You're not going to convince my character that drowning kittens is a good idea.
I think that's a bit hyperbolic. I think people have a hard time separating themselves from their characters and it's not just online that this happens. In my TT group we had one player who refused to use the intrigue system when an NPC was trying to convince her to dedicate soldiers to some battle. Her stance was "My character would never do that" and that was that even though there was no reason why her character wouldn't aside from "I don't want her to". Which is fine but part of the fun we were trying to have with this game was rolling with all the punches, even and especially the social punches thanks to the intrigue system. Ultimately the GM said "Ok, spend a destiny point for the auto-win" and we all moved on but it left a stale taste in everyone's mouths.
No, no one could ever convince you to do something that goes against your moral character (drowning kittens) without supernatural powers but maybe a friend convincing you do make a bad decision in the heat of the moment? Maybe! To me that's part of the fun of playing a character that isn't me, using their various stats and in-game systems to determine what they would do. Maybe not all the time but some of the time, sure.
Okay, maybe he's being hyperbolic. But I can potentially see the other player's point about 'my character would never do that'. Maybe not in this specific situation, but as a general thing.
I mean, look at the Charm Person spell in DnD. You can convince intelligent creatures to do things within their nature. The more convincing you are the better the effect. "Hey little chief... that other goblin wants to kill you and take your job... are you going to let him get away with that?" Would work. "Hey little chief, attack that big dragon to get his shiny" would garner, "Fuck you dude, I aint stupid."
Again, maybe hyperbolic, but this is when using full on magic to influence someone's thoughts. Now, take the magic out of the equation and I don't care what your 'persuasion' skill is, if I think sending in my troops is a bad idea for me, them, or my homeland, and you've offered nothing to convince me otherwise, then yeah, I'm not going to budge either. If your character has seduction over 9,000, but my character doesn't like were-badgers, I'm not going to TS with you.
I'd say a GOOD social system is one that allows both players to say, "Okay, I'm not sure how my character would handle this. He's sort of on the fence about sending his armies. I mean, on the one hand, Mr. McBaddington IS a threat to the whole realm, and you've made a convincing argument of that. On the other hand, Angry Ladygal is on my western boarders, and if I send my troops I might be leaving myself vulnerable. Let's make a roll to see just HOW convincing you're being."
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this question, in the grand scheme, as it really is opinion based, and as with many things, you can appeal to the widest audience, but you'll never ever appeal to everyone.