A New Star Wars game? (Legends of The Old Republic (Name pending))

[bored]

@EUBanana Hear that? Start converting those Enfields into E-11's.

[Mr.Johnson]

So after lengthy discussion and looking through comments both here and in pages I think I'm going to scrap the idea of starting at the end of the mandalorian war. As cool a scene as I think it would be the very valid point was brought up a few times in pages and discussion with potential staffers that running an event where Malachor V gets destroyed at the end is just a bit too much railroading. I'd be kind of hypocritical to run the scene after complaining about a scene elsemu having an outcome the players couldn't affect, so I think it's best to scrap that idea even if I think it's cool for the betterment of the player base. Just use the Mandalorian wars as history and focus on the meat and potatoes: The Jedi Civil War.

[Seraphim73]

@mr-johnson Disappointed, but totally understood. Still looking forward to the game.

[Auspice]

@seraphim73 said in A New Star Wars game? (Legends of The Old Republic (Name pending)):

@mr-johnson Disappointed, but totally understood. Still looking forward to the game.

Same.
Tho I still want mandos.

[Seraphim73]

@auspice said in A New Star Wars game? (Legends of The Old Republic (Name pending)):

Tho I still want mandos.

There are still plenty of Mandos scattered around. Just fewer of them, and there's a bigger bad on the block. Could even be a few mercing for the Republic to get back at the Revanchists.

[Mr.Johnson]

@auspice said in A New Star Wars game? (Legends of The Old Republic (Name pending)):

@seraphim73 said in A New Star Wars game? (Legends of The Old Republic (Name pending)):

@mr-johnson Disappointed, but totally understood. Still looking forward to the game.

Same.
Tho I still want mandos.

Mandalorians are not going anywhere they are still going to be around in the game. I only want to do right by the playerbase and avoid putting people into railroaded situations. You'll still be able to app Mandalorians. And who knows maybe if I get a group of people together who are willing to go in with the understanding that the scene will have a fixed outcome I'll still run a single scene or even a small collection of scenes set during the Mandalorian war, so people can still get that fix. If I do go that route I just want people heading in to realize: You can change a lot about it, but in the end Malachor V gets destroyed, bringing an end to the war.

[Seraphim73]

@mr-johnson I think that it's totally fair to have a scene with a predetermined ending, so long as a) all of the players know it going into the scene, and b) there are lots and lots of things that provide lots of things to react to (plus time and space to react) and preferrably things to do during the scene.

So if they're at Malachor V, then they could totally be in a fight out at the edge of the system, fighting Mandalorians and kicking butt... they just can't impact the big event that will impact them all at the end of their own boarding action/starfighter combat. Lots for people to do, and they still get to show their characters' reactions to Malachor V "on-screen."

I think it's eminently doable, but I also completely understand where you're coming from.

[Auspice]

@seraphim73 said in A New Star Wars game? (Legends of The Old Republic (Name pending)):

@mr-johnson I think that it's totally fair to have a scene with a predetermined ending, so long as a) all of the players know it going into the scene, and b) there are lots and lots of things that provide lots of things to react to (plus time and space to react) and preferrably things to do during the scene.

So if they're at Malachor V, then they could totally be in a fight out at the edge of the system, fighting Mandalorians and kicking butt... they just can't impact the big event that will impact them all at the end of their own boarding action/starfighter combat. Lots for people to do, and they still get to show their characters' reactions to Malachor V "on-screen."

I think it's eminently doable, but I also completely understand where you're coming from.

It's also doable to have X number of smaller battles that players can affect the outcomes of, just not the outcome of the big battle.

Do you get the upper hand over there? Do you get the supplies? Do you overpower the base? etc.

The players could have the small victories that can inform how the next stage moves forward for their world, even if the greater mechanisms behind the scenes are moving differently.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@mr-johnson
I honestly don't think a playable prologue is a terrible thing, or that staffers can't have some kind of vision for their stories. They shouldn't be totally pre-planned, but I also think plots with NO direction tend to be frustrating in their own way. Like, don't let one terrible PRP run by someone who's clearly a moron make you think a loose outline is some kind of source of evil.

[Roz]

@three-eyed-crow said in A New Star Wars game? (Legends of The Old Republic (Name pending)):

@mr-johnson
I honestly don't think a playable prologue is a terrible thing, or that staffers can't have some kind of vision for their stories. They shouldn't be totally pre-planned, but I also think plots with NO direction tend to be frustrating in their own way. Like, don't let one terrible PRP run by someone who's clearly a moron make you think a loose outline is some kind of source of evil.

Yeah. It's not that there's no place for scenes or plots like this, but you have to just manage expectations. You want to be clear with players up-front at what they'll be participating in. People who are totally not cool with that type of plot will just self-select out.

[SG]

Here's my quick pitch: Set the game during the expansion period, with exploration and settlement of new worlds, discovering alien civilizations. Way before the Jedi Civil war, back when Jedi had plug ins for their light sabres, and Coruscant had trouble controlling its colonies.

Oh, and in another thread @ZombieGenesis mentioned having a savage worlds CG up and running.

[Mr.Johnson]

@sg said in A New Star Wars game? (Legends of The Old Republic (Name pending)):

Here's my quick pitch: Set the game during the expansion period, with exploration and settlement of new worlds, discovering alien civilizations. Way before the Jedi Civil war, back when Jedi had plug ins for their light sabres, and Coruscant had trouble controlling its colonies.

Oh, and in another thread @ZombieGenesis mentioned having a savage worlds CG up and running.

I've got a feeling that'd be hard to run, and keep players for. Also probably really difficult to set up in the first place as far as costs for items and the like go. Was there ever a campaign book for the expansion period?

[SG]

@mr-johnson The only real difference would be hyperdrives are much slower. Everything else could stay the same with just a bit of skinning.

[bored]

@Mr-Johnson

It depends what you count as what.

Technically speaking, the original expansion period is super ancient (BBY 20,000+) and really not developed heavily beyond the slightest history burbs in sidebars, game flavor text, etc. That said, there's d6 and d20 material for BBY 5k~4k (Great Hyperspace War, the Qel-Dromas & Nomi, etc). Protosabers are used to some degree in those periods, especially the earlier end.

It's also dubious if you really need to do anything. If protosabers are the standard tech, then just give them lightsaber stats and no one has actual lightsabers. You could house rule stuff for energy pack damage if you really wanted, etc, but it's hardly necessary.

[Lithium]

@bored Exactly, there is also plenty of time where there is little to no information at all, because it was lost to the current times. So you could have a local big bad, keep the game set in a specific sector, and still have huge stories that over such a short amount of time (A mush is not going to be a significant amount of time to the huge history of Star Wars) that there's really no surprise that it wasn't ever known to lore in general.

There's a lot of freedom in time periods outside of those set with the 'big names'.

[Mr.Johnson]

You know what: Screw it, I know it looks bad me wishy washin back and fourth on things but that's what this thread is for, crafting ideas till they come together into something I can work with. And this thread is great for that. Seriously guys thanks for all the help and all the ideas.

I have a feeling it's going to wind up a clusterfrag, BUT I believe so long as I work with the advice given I can easily give an attempt at making a prologue for the place so long as I keep it nice and clear what people are getting into. Let's give the Mandalorian war a shot.

Assuming this ever turns to anything, which there's always the chance things fall apart but I'd like to be optimistic.

[ThatGuyThere]

@roz said in A New Star Wars game? (Legends of The Old Republic (Name pending)):

Yeah. It's not that there's no place for scenes or plots like this, but you have to just manage expectations. You want to be clear with players up-front at what they'll be participating in. People who are totally not cool with that type of plot will just self-select out.

I very much agree with this, I personally hate the predetermined outcome type of plots and will avoid them like the plague but I do not think having one is a big issue as long as it is clearly marked. You don't even necessarily have to spoil it by saying what is predetermined just somewhere in the event description of discussion clearly note that This Plot has a predetermined ending and you should be fine. I even do this in table tops sometimes the story needs a particular outcome to continue, but having the scene happen on screen is important so just warn your players and let those who want to self select out do so and it shouldn't be a real big issue.

[bored]

And yeah, definitely agree. Railroading on that grand scale is perfectly OK if it's telegraphed.

If you call the event 'The Fall of Malachor V' or 'The Crusaders Last Stand' people are going to know what they're signing up for.

The key thing, of course, is to give people other ways to matter. They can't save the Neo-Crusader movement, they can't win. But they might, for instance, save a single ship that goes on to form a camp-colony which becomes a center for future recruitment and continuity of the Mandalorian culture.

If anything, their adaptability is one of the coolest things about the Mandalorians in the EU. Once you get past the Boba Fett speshul factor of omg we r best bounty hunter, it's a pretty fascinating invented culture, what with its nomadic, species-agnostic, and yet somehow ageless nature.

[Auspice]

@bored said in A New Star Wars game? (Legends of The Old Republic (Name pending)):

And yeah, definitely agree. Railroading on that grand scale is perfectly OK if it's telegraphed.

If you call the event 'The Fall of Malachor V' or 'The Crusaders Last Stand' people are going to know what they're signing up for.

The key thing, of course, is to give people other ways to matter. They can't save the Neo-Crusader movement, they can't win. But they might, for instance, save a single ship that goes on to form a camp-colony which becomes a center for future recruitment and continuity of the Mandalorian culture.

If anything, their adaptability is one of the coolest things about the Mandalorians in the EU. Once you get past the Boba Fett speshul factor of omg we r best bounty hunter, it's a pretty fascinating invented culture, what with its nomadic, species-agnostic, and yet somehow ageless nature.

Exactly this.
People can handle big vast things happening way over there that are predetermined so long as the stuff happening here and now isn't.

"So we know the outcome of this war, but you all get to decide what the outcome of this battle is and it will inform the game moving forward."

I bet you'd get a lot of people signing right the hell up for that.

[Seraphim73]

Example for wiki-posting to help people create a simple Level 3 Republic Soldier:

+physical/set age=adult
+physical/set gender=<choice>
+physical/set species=Human
+physical/set Height=<choice>
+physical/set Weight=<choice>
+chargen/next
.
+ability/set Str=13
+ability/set Dex=15
+ability/set Con=14
+ability/set Int=12
+ability/set Wis=12
+ability/set Cha=11
+chargen/next
.
+select soldier
+spend language=<choice> (see '+spend language=help' for options)
+spend skill=Perception
+spend skill=Initiative
+spend skill=Endurance
+spend skill=Mechanics
+spend skill=Knowledge: Tactics
+spend feat=Point Blank Shot
+spend feat=Weapon Focus: Rifles
+spend talent=Weapon Specialization: Rifles
+level up
.
+select soldier
+spend bonus=Precise Shot
+level up
.
+select soldier
+spend talent=Armored Defense
+spend feat=Trench Warrior

That gets you a character sheet that looks generally like:

Medium Human soldier 3
Force 6
Init +8; Senses Perception +7
Languages Basic, <choice>
-========================================================================-<
Defenses Ref 16 (flat-footed 14), Fort 17, Will 14
hp 48; Threshold 17
-========================================================================-<
Speed 6 squares
Melee by weapon +4
Ranged by weapon +5
Base Atk +3; Grp +5
-========================================================================-<
Abilities Str 13, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 11
Talents Armored Defense, Weapon Specialization (rifles)
Feats Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Trench Warrior, Weapon Focus (rifles), Weapon Proficiency (pistols, rifles, simple weapons)
Skills Endurance +8, Initiative +8, Knowledge (tactics) +7, Mechanics +7, Perception +7

Is it the best character ever? Nope. It is a solid one though, and one that doesn't have much in the way of complicated mechanics (precise shot and armored defense are actually in there specifically to remove the complication of several mechanics, although Armored Defense admittedly won't come into play for 2 levels with Light Republic Armor).

It's also a relatively simple way to get someone through chargen, they can easily cut and paste. 1-2 options for each org/sub-org (Jedi and Republic Military would definitely want different builds available) and you can get people who aren't familiar with Saga into play quickly, and let them customize their characters from there as they level.