Wheel of Time mechanics
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How do people feel about turned based more automated combat system (like FS3 and DSS) vs more GMed types? (the various WoD places out there)
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@wildbaboons said in Wheel of Time mechanics:
How do people feel about turned based more automated combat system (like FS3 and DSS) vs more GMed types? (the various WoD places out there)
I don't really know much about WoT, so just something to consider ... the automated systems in general only work well when there are limited actions that can be automated. When you start throwing in powers and modifiers from merits and all kinds of special situations ... you either end up with something massive like TGG's combat code (which was a work of art but had a wicked learning curve) or you end up constantly having to work around the automation (which kinda defeats the point).
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@wildbaboons said in Wheel of Time mechanics:
How do people feel about turned based more automated combat system (like FS3 and DSS) vs more GMed types? (the various WoD places out there)
I'm strongly in favor of automated combat systems, with the same caveat that @faraday mentioned: if you're going to have things that work "differently" from weapons, it's going to be a lot harder to implement them in any automated system.
But man, I've been totally spoiled by automated systems, because while a 4 on 4 fight in WoD or Saga might take 6-8 hours, it takes 2 most of the time in FS3, maybe 3 if one or more players is slow.
ETA: I think that "automatic vs GMed" is a false dichotomy, however. I think that you can easily have a GM who does creative things with automated systems.
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@seraphim73 said in Wheel of Time mechanics:
But man, I've been totally spoiled by automated systems, because while a 4 on 4 fight in WoD or Saga might take 6-8 hours, it takes 2 most of the time in FS3, maybe 3 if one or more players is slow.
Lotherio had scenes on Fifth Kingdom where there were 7 v. 7 battles, and they still only took 2 hours. You simply tell folks to hold poses until 3 rounds of combat were done, and then gave them 2 minutes after each round to change their action, if necessary.
Seriously, automated systems are awesome.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@ganymede FS3 even pre-Ares is slick. Thanks to Daithi, we got to run turtles vs wall, two turtles vs a section of wall set up using FS3 vehicle. We did the wall defense vehicle battle with lots of hps and a sally forth battle in 3-4 hours and it included minor pauses to try and keep medics helping. I enjoy FS3 just for combat, I should have logged the test runs of airships vs naval ships battles while balancing then for the steampunk place we attempted.
I'm just a surge protector doing my job, sir.
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@ganymede Oh yeah, I've run scenes with 10-12 PCs and 15-20 NPCs (in FS3 2)--they took 5ish hours, but yeah. I just wanted a one-to-one comparison and I don't think anyone would be crazy enough to run 12 PCs and 20 NPCs in Saga/WoD (yes, I'm sure there are those who have done it).
@lotherio said in Wheel of Time mechanics:
I should have logged the test runs of airships vs naval ships battles while balancing then for the steampunk place we attempted.
Ooooh. That does sound like fun. I put together some smaller-than-frigate ship stats for T8S, and ran them at each other and at sea monsters a few times and had a heck of a lot of fun. Vehicle Combat can definitely be fun.
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@lotherio said in Wheel of Time mechanics:
Thanks to Daithi, we got to run turtles vs wall, two turtles vs a section of wall set up using FS3 vehicle.
Those battles were more like:
Daithi yells something incoherent.
Enemy nearly cuts Daithi's head off; he goes down.
Healer revives Daithi.
Daithi grunts and goes back at it.
Enemy nearly cuts Daithi's head off again; he goes down.
Healer revives Daithi.
Daithi swears and goes back at it.
Enemy sticks a sword through Daithi's belly; he goes down.
Healer revives Daithi.
Daithi loses his shit, and crushes Enemy's skull with axe.
Enemy slowly dies wondering what on Earth will stop Daithi.
Everyone else in the party destroys the wall while Daithi serves as a meatshield.Which was really frustrating from my end because I just wanted to hit people with an axe.
Anyhow, so goes the Legend of the Turtle.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@ganymede Daithi channeled @Seraphim73's RNG luck on Fifth Kingdom.
I'm just a surge protector doing my job, sir.
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@lotherio said in Wheel of Time mechanics:
Daithi channeled @Seraphim73's RNG luck on Fifth Kingdom.
It was Legendary.
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@ganymede Daithi was so awesome!
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@seraphim73 said in Wheel of Time mechanics:
@ganymede Oh yeah, I've run scenes with 10-12 PCs and 15-20 NPCs (in FS3 2)--they took 5ish hours, but yeah. I just wanted a one-to-one comparison and I don't think anyone would be crazy enough to run 12 PCs and 20 NPCs in Saga/WoD (yes, I'm sure there are those who have done it).
Back in the mid-90s there I was in a big werewolf combat scene, I rolled fairly high on init and took my action didn't spend any rage that round so was done. After waiting a bit I went down to the dining hall to have dinner (I pages the scene runner my stamina in case a soak roll was needed from me, I am not a monster.), ate dinner talked to some friends for a bit and went back to my room it still hadn't gotten to the end of the round, and that was a WoD combat with 8 pcs and I think a dozen NPCs.
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@thatguythere LOL that's horrible.
Not to derail the thread too much about automated combats but I think it's at least vaguely relevant...
The nuts and bolts of automating combat are actually pretty easy. Entering your action, rolling initiative, and then iterating through the actions inflicting damage or effects... you could code that in a lot of systems. In fact, the original versions of my +combat were for B5MUSH (which used a sort of oWoD mortal-only homebrew) and BSP (which used FUDGE). There was nothing FS3 about it.
What makes FS3 unique is that the mechanics are optimized for MUs. There's no concept of "holding your action", for example - not because it's a bad idea, but because it would disrupt the scene flow too much. There's nothing like: "Oh, he just shot me, I'm going to activate my Iron Skin power to soak the damage better..." or "I'm going to allocate half of my dodge pool to this attack and save the rest for the next one..." or "I'm going to try to riposte..." or the other more 'interactive' combat mechanics that you might find in a traditional tabletop RPG. There are also no creative powers, like, "I'm going to put ice under his feet..." because okay, how would you model that effect with an automated action? (rhetorical question)
That kind of stuff is what makes combat systems difficult to automate, and why MUs trying to use traditional RPG rules for even GM-ed combats get so bogged down. There's just too much back-and-forth.
