Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.

[Arkandel]

@thatguythere said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

Believe it or not, I genuinely dislike people in general, not just here or in gaming but in life.

I believe it, man. It's why I said in general.

[Derp]

@kanye-qwest said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

@derp who are these untouchable people

If what you're really wanting to know is whether or not I count you among them? I would answer emphatically, 'yes'.

If you're wanting an entire list of the people I think are among those who frequently skirt the line and seemingly suffer little to no actual consequences for it, that's probably material for another thread not in this section of the forum.

While @Arkandel might not feel that this problem has grown to the proportion of an epidemic, there are those of us who strongly disagree.

@surreality said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

The reason debates don't stay civil around here is because a good many people around here don't value civility. They have stated repeatedly that they'd rather the whole forum be gloves-off.

For the record, I don't want that. . . people should be reined in.

Ditto. While I don't mind stating things directly when I think they need to be stated (see above), I do think that there should be at least a minimum amount of civility to these kinds of things outside of the Hog Pit.

Note, also, how the last couple of pages of this thread have managed to somehow mysteriously devolve into a series of insults, though. That's not what I would consider civil.

[Arkandel]

@derp said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

While @Arkandel might not feel that this problem has grown to the proportion of an epidemic, there are those of us who strongly disagree.

Fair enough.

If you're wanting an entire list of the people I think are among those who frequently skirt the line and seemingly suffer little to no actual consequences for it, that's probably material for another thread not in this section of the forum.

Can finger-pointing also not take place in this section though? It's not a matter of cursing at people or anything like that, but I'd rather we look at problems to solve rather than for people to blame.

The former might actually produce solutions, the latter only tends to generate distractions.

Note, also, how the last couple of pages of this thread have managed to somehow mysteriously devolve into a series of insults, though. That's not what I would consider civil.

Oh, people can be very mean without being uncivil. But that's a problem we can tackle as well; being called names and getting carpet F-bombed is just higher on the list for now.

[Insomnia]

@pandora said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

@krmbm said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

Also, I don't think a "vocal few" people who want the board to be made out of rainbows should have a greater voice than the "vocal few" who appreciate having a place to call a spade a flaming piece of cunty spades.

Listen, I don't know if there's something specifically wrong with your genital area (there are all sorts of antibiotics these days, best of luck) but how about not using the word cunt/cunty as an acceptable mud-slinging insult when that's actually precisely the sort of shit that will get you slain in the Hogpit.

The thing about the word cunt though, is it is used much more in the the UK than it is North America. About as interchangeably as bitch is here. I mean it's in their daytime soaps. So it actually is an acceptable mud-slinging insult in some places. Language is different all over the world. Are we supposed to stick u's in everything because @Arkandel is in Canada, and @Ganymede is from Canada, so 2/3 of the mod team dictates the rules of word usage? (I mean it's not a problem for me, I usually only remove my u's from poses and not where I post online, but I can try!)

[Haven]

@insomnia said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

@pandora said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

@krmbm said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

Also, I don't think a "vocal few" people who want the board to be made out of rainbows should have a greater voice than the "vocal few" who appreciate having a place to call a spade a flaming piece of cunty spades.

Listen, I don't know if there's something specifically wrong with your genital area (there are all sorts of antibiotics these days, best of luck) but how about not using the word cunt/cunty as an acceptable mud-slinging insult when that's actually precisely the sort of shit that will get you slain in the Hogpit.

The thing about the word cunt though, is it is used much more in the the UK than it is North America. About as interchangeably as bitch is here. I mean it's in their daytime soaps. So it actually is an acceptable mud-slinging insult in some places. Language is different all over the world. Are we supposed to stick u's in everything because @Arkandel is in Canada, and @Ganymede is from Canada, so 2/3 of the mod team dictates the rules of word usage? (I mean it's not a problem for me, I usually only remove my u's from poses and not where I post online, but I can try!)

I am in favour of using U's in things. (See what I did there?)

I say or type "cunt" on the daily. (See what I did there?)

Pandora is not a fan of the word, so I have to cunt on the sly around here.

[Kanye Qwest]

@derp said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

If what you're really wanting to know is whether or not I count you among them? I would answer emphatically, 'yes'.

lol what
WHAT

That very much is not what I was 'wanting to know', because it is balls out insane

[Arkandel]

@insomnia said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

Are we supposed to stick u's in everything because @Arkandel is in Canada, and @Ganymede is from Canada, so 2/3 of the mod team dictates the rules of word usage?

Y'all will need to say "sorry" every time you call each other a fucktard and must stick an "eh?" at the end of each sentence (sample example: "you're such a fucktard, eh?") as part of our new anti-toxicity policies.

[Auspice]

@insomnia said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

@pandora said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

@krmbm said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

Also, I don't think a "vocal few" people who want the board to be made out of rainbows should have a greater voice than the "vocal few" who appreciate having a place to call a spade a flaming piece of cunty spades.

Listen, I don't know if there's something specifically wrong with your genital area (there are all sorts of antibiotics these days, best of luck) but how about not using the word cunt/cunty as an acceptable mud-slinging insult when that's actually precisely the sort of shit that will get you slain in the Hogpit.

The thing about the word cunt though, is it is used much more in the the UK than it is North America. About as interchangeably as bitch is here. I mean it's in their daytime soaps. So it actually is an acceptable mud-slinging insult in some places. Language is different all over the world. Are we supposed to stick u's in everything because @Arkandel is in Canada, and @Ganymede is from Canada, so 2/3 of the mod team dictates the rules of word usage? (I mean it's not a problem for me, I usually only remove my u's from poses and not where I post online, but I can try!)

I may be a terrible dirty American, but I actually stick u's in myself. >.>

[ThatGuyThere]

I too am an American but some things just look better spelt the British way, for example armour and theatre look off to me using US spellings. However I will spell center and color like an American until the day I die.
Edit: I grew up close enough to Canada to receive Canadian broadcast television so that might explain my mixed spelling tendencies.

[Apos]

@arkandel said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

Can finger-pointing also not take place in this section though? It's not a matter of cursing at people or anything like that, but I'd rather we look at problems to solve rather than for people to blame.

The former might actually produce solutions, the latter only tends to generate distractions.

The problem there is while someone like Faraday is legitimately looking for civil discourse, other people aren't. They are feeling stung over discussions they felt turned against them and hoping the moderators will change things to get even, and posting about cabals or whatever, when what happened is they posted something dumb and half the board told them it was dumb. If someone posts something misogynistic or transphobic or whatever, I mean, a lot of posters are going to tell them they disagree, and whether that's justified outrage or an unhealthy dogpile pretty much depends on where you sit. And it really is up to the mods how much they want to allow for that, and whether that stuff all gets deleted or we let people vaguebook about the time their pride got injured two years ago because they posted something people disagreed with and got made fun of for it.

[Derp]

@kanye-qwest said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

because it is balls out insane

No, not really. This happens frequently enough that many of us have commented on how very odd it is. But, you know, I wouldn't really expect you to see it.

@Arkandel - While I can respect that finger-pointing isn't really what you were going for here, at some point it needs to be said, and specific people called out on it. There's been an ongoing conversation about this for long enough that it needed to be done, and I tried to do so as civilly as possible. And I'll even note that I only did so in response to someone asking who was on the list, and limited that response to informing them that the questioner was on it.

But as a prime example of exactly what we were talking about regarding inconsistent policies and such, shouldn't the earlier comment implying that someone only made a remark due to a possible genital infection rank slightly higher on the things-to-call-out-o-meter than me answering KQ's question as to who people are with a response that I consider her one of the people in question?

Things to consider, you know?

[Ganymede]

@kanye-qwest said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

That very much is not what I was 'wanting to know', because it is balls out insane

What did you want to know? I thought you wanted to know who Derp thought was one of the "untouchable" people that skirt the line here.

I think his response was pretty clear.

[Insomnia]

@arkandel Take off, eh? Ya Hoser!

[Thenomain]

@apos

I think the admin also want to protect people against mob rule. This series of boards has had a very long history of people accusing it of the Hive-Mind, which is a defense of getting dog-piled. I don't think it's a good defense, but I also think it's pretty sick when the dog-piling happens to anyone; otherwise well-meaning people looking for civil discourse finding themselves in a scrum. Five well-meaning people looking for civil discourse themselves can be a scrum, and when you call out people who are trying to help as being bad people, then yeah, those people probably have a fairly legitimate reason to turn sour and be less helpful in the future.

tl;dr: Even good people can be seen as bad people. Even "it depends" style good people can be seen as "all the times" bad people. Those people will give up trying, when trying is absolutely necessary. If I see toxic behavior leaking from the Hog Pit, it's that this lack of trying to understand is considered acceptable.

Though honestly, I blame the current political culture that started around 2001.

If anyone has not played The Evolution of Trust, it is a very good game theory breakdown of the problems we have here every day. It's worth the time.

[surreality]

@thenomain There's a reason I always suggest a drink after I have to whip out the stereotypical Libra 'it depends'.

It's typically because nuance is relevant.

Nuance is also damnably hard to police.

Regarding the dogpile problem, it isn't as hard. When a number of people all express the same opinion, it may or may not be a dogpile.

Is it a group of random posters? Then probably not. You very likely have the 'someone said something stupid and is getting called out on it by multiple people' situation @Apos describes.

Is it a circle of friends all spouting the same accusation at them that is not directly based on what's written? That's the telltale sign of a gossip circle commiseration spiral dogpile, and is worthy of note.

Is it a circle that regularly goes after the same person en masse with the worst possible assumptions about them thrown around as accusations and insisting they need to 'own' all of this crap they dreamed up in their circle jerk but doesn't exist in actual reality outside their circle jerk? That may be a sign of bullying, and is also worthy of note.

It's not a difficult pattern to spot. It really isn't.

Entirely decent human beings can fall into these traps, even in the process of attempting to be the best decent human beings they can be. It doesn't make their behavior any less inappropriate or problematic, or their commiseration spiral conclusions and accusations any less faulty, or their ganging up on any less troublesome when it occurs.

"It depends" == "there is no black and white answer without further data, and the best you may be able to hope for even with further data is a very murky grey".

[Kanye Qwest]

@ganymede Well, I did expect a response that was out of touch with reality. You got me there. Expectations fulfilled!

[Thenomain]

In case anyone needed it, here's an excellent example of not only How Not To Be Civil, but how to do exactly what Admin Said Not To Do:

@kanye-qwest said in Hello MSBites! Grade your administrators.:

@ganymede Well, I did expect a response that was out of touch with reality. You got me there. Expectations fulfilled!

(eta: Admin, consider this another request from me to move the Hog Pit back into the Hog Pit. Thanks.)

[magee101]

@thenomain examples of people that don't care or don't seem to realize the point. Imo this is why we have seen the toxic leak out of hogpit, not because people dont understand what hogpit is for but because they either dont care or are oblivious to how rude they really are. Thats why I am advocating to keeping the system as is, but having actual punishment for people that are not cluing in and taking thier bs where it belongs and just constantly shitposting

[Haven]

This post is deleted!

[surreality]

@haven Please don't with that stuff in this thread?