oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?
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This begs the question (modern definition): What about the theme do you adore? oWoD's theme could be all over the place, and each game line rather had their own.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
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I like the general theme of things being in the darkness that most normal people just don't know about. They struggle against themselves and sometimes each other, and even on a good day the best mortal isn't much more than a pawn, the worst - a speed bump. But even the monsters in the closet have things to fear and aren't nearly as hot shit as they'd like to think. What will you do with your supernatural existence?
That's kind of how I see it. The thing about World of Darkness is that the theme IS all over the place. But that lets you take the stuff you like and ignore the stuff you don't. The problem with MU*s is that everyone takes and leaves different pieces and that's where we run into problems.
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@thenomain I agree a great deal with what @Warma-Sheen is saying. You can pick and choose, but I've always been a fan of horror (especially classics) and I love the twisting of old stories into something new. The Nod version of Cain's story just...I adore it. I love the supplements that talk about Cain, Kindred, Lilith, and the BSDs (and the wyrm). Hell, even in nWoD I LOVE the scripts about Longinus. I just dig that shiz hardcore.
I also like gritty rp. I like darker elements in rps (and more with that horror) and the ability to play against supernatural elements. I suppose, at the end of the day, it's interesting stories I love the most.
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Thank you for articulating that in a way that was eluding me, which rolls back to something that i harp about a lot regarding WoD MU*s: focus. Everyone has their different idea what the WoD should be, and a lot of those things are not intersecting at times. So it becomes difficult to really maintain any kind of focus without that being constantly guided back by staff.
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The fun thing the Old World of Darkness is that it felt... like it was proud of what it was and that made me feel like it was worth investing my time into.
Not everyone enjoyed the Tzimisce or the Glass Walkers or Nagah, but there they were, and they were not going anywhere. It not only made Baba Yaga a thing in the setting, but also the zmei-controlling, former Mage/Disney princess who learned not-Thaumaturgy sorcery, erected a supernatural barrier that made Russia a no-go zone and ruled the Motherland, and had some ties with the Talons of the Wyrm, the Crescent Moon and the vampire politics there.
Don't like it? Don't go to Russia. Or just ignore the book on your own volition. But it was never like nWoD. "There are rumors of a powerful witch in Russia. Maybe. I don't know. Unless you don't like that? Because if you don't, she doesn't exist. Ohmigod, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. We were kidding. ... Unless you like the idea?" That is how nWoD feels to me. A bunch of superficial ideas thrown into a book, in the most pretentious way possible, but it never sells you that it is awesome and that you should love it and sink your teeth into their books and setting.
It was designed as a tool kit, and oWoD was designed as a world on its last, dying breath. One of them may be fun to play and all, but the other made you involved, made you want to buy the next book to see what was up.
And if it was shit? Then you acted like a normal person and bitched about it to your friends and hated on Albrecht because fuck that guy.
And then you bought the next one. =|
I can safely say I am not passionate about -anything- on nWoD. And I am not someone who played oWoD for 15 years then transitioned. By the time I started playing, oWoD was almost done in the US. It is just not the nature of the beast. You may argue 'Oh, the Daeva are SO well-designed! So elegant!' but I find it hard to believe anyone would think they are more creative than the Kuei-jin or more interesting than the Baali or Tremere.
I just don't see it.
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@sunnyj This. It really feels like it lost its soul. It was not a pure soul, no, but at least it had one.
I can just feel the 'we got older and have more mortgage than hope now' in nWoD and CoD.
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@sunnyj said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:
It was designed as a tool kit, and oWoD was designed as a world on its last, dying breath. One of them may be fun to play and all, but the other made you involved, made you want to buy the next book to see what was up.
Yeah this pretty much sums it up for me. It could be dumb at times, but it was bold and made for a vivid world and story, and there felt like real feeling and investment into the story. The cosmology of something like oWoD demon or mage or vampire really grabbed me, and the whole story of the God Machine just doesn't do it for me.
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I'm pretty torn. I really, really like different lines from both - Forsaken resonates way more with me than Apocalypse - but jeez is Masquerade cooler than Requiem, like whoa.
Now if only someone could capture the feeling of playing Bloodlines...
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@wizz I love Apoc more than Forsaken, but to each their own wolf-apple.
BUT YES! Whenever anyone talks about WoD, I often point toward Bloodlines as one of the best examples.
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That reminds me I just reinstalled Bloodlines recently...
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There's still a few scenes that give me chills when I think about them, that are sort of unique to the video game experience.
But the two things I think I appreciated most about the game were:
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The mood. Walking Downtown and looking up at those looming, dark buildings was one of my favorite things. Everything felt run down, like the end of the world really was just around the corner.
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The story. It was so tight, and while there was always something interesting going on to distract you, ultimately things were building up to that awesome end. I think what largely lost my appetite for most MU*s is the move to large, empty sandboxes that just run for fucking ever.
I think I would honestly enjoy playing a MU* that runs like, the last few years before Gehenna or whatever, and play through how things fall apart.
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So ultimately you desire is a focused, story-driven game with enough periphery stuff to keep you occupied as things march inexorably to the end.
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Does anyone in this hobby nowdays have the time, maturity and energy to provide a 'focused, story-driven experiences' to a game of 50+ players, all with conflicting schedules, interests, interpretations and OOC grudges that have lasted for years? One that doesn't just focus on a few faithful friends + whoever happens to manage to sign up for the +events and ask the right +job questions?
I think the pursuit of making MUs like tabletop games is really misguided.
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@sunnyj said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:
Does anyone in this hobby nowdays have the time, maturity and energy to provide a 'focused, story-driven experiences' to a game of 50+ players, all with conflicting schedules, interests, interpretations and OOC grudges that have lasted for years?
No joke on this.
Though it's veering further off topic, I'm going to. It isn't just an issue for staff. It's an issue for players, too.
I am trying to find my spine to play somewhere soon. The moment I do, I observe that people who have stomped all over my face in stiletto heels are already there, one egregiously over a period of several years. OK, soldiering on. But it got worse in a couple of ways I won't go into, that are still very personally Not_OK to me, and are presenting a very significant obstacle. Many things I can blow off; one is petty and annoying, but the other hits a very strong and painful nerve in the worst of all possible ways.
This is not the game's problem or the staff's problem, and it should not be, because these folks are doing nothing objectively wrong whatsoever. It's my problem, and it's my problem to solve. Whether that's by sucking it up and soldiering on for as long as I can, or quietly stepping away with my thanks to those present for a remarkably good experience otherwise thus far remains to be seen; it'll be one or the other.
Regardless, I can speak from experience when I say... it isn't just staff this fucks things up for. It's all of us.
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@sunnyj I think it is challenging but possible, even if people need realistic expectations about it.
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@sunnyj said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:
Does anyone in this hobby nowdays have the time, maturity and energy to provide a 'focused, story-driven experiences' to a game of 50+ players,
Ehh, I don't think I want to play with 50 people anymore. I like having a small group, that the stories both large and small can sort of revolve around. The trouble is, I don't know anybody, haha.
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@wizz yeah but that feels like tabletop. Also it is easy for a player to want this. They can hop on, make a char, scream GIMME PLOT and then leave on a whim. A MU is much more of a commitment to staffers and owners. It is far more complex than "just hanging out with mah pals".
