oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?
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@wizz said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:
Ehh, I don't think I want to play with 50 people anymore. I like having a small group, that the stories both large and small can sort of revolve around. The trouble is, I don't know anybody, haha.
No snark meant in this at all but is sounds like you would prefer an Online Table Top to a MUSH.
Not knowing anyone is a hurdle but not an insurmountable one, I know Roll 20 has open game ads where people running on it are looking for players. Granted that is the same crap shoot as any potential dealing with a group of strangers but would probably hit a lot closer to what you are looking for. -
I don't think it matters that players are looking for things that are a bit different. Numbers, groups...yes it's a lot for Staff to deal with, but you also have to understand that PLAYERS can run things for each other, too. As long as people are patient (key word there) and understand that EVERYONE has RL to deal with, then you can have something smooth, inviting, and engaging. Big group, lil group...it's all about support.
Sometimes, Staff doesn't have enough support. On the other hand, sometimes players don't have enough support, either. As a Staffer, Player, Storyteller, I like supporting other's creativity and working with them as best as I possibly can. You're welcomed to play where you want, and should feel that way.
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@rizbunz Riz, I think you are saying a whole lot of nothing here. I don't mean this disrespectfully, I really like you, but it is kinda hard to find a point in your post?
Yeah, if players stick to a game despite their first impulses to leave it, a game might thrive... until those impulses come again. Players leave for a number of reasons, because they have almost NO investment in a game. "But muh story! My chardev" isn't really investment. People drop and pick up characters very easily, and as time goes on, it just gets -easier- to do so. The fact many games feel samey just contributes to this feeling of 'if I leave this game now, eh, I'll app in the next version of it down the road'.
Most players have no idea just how much investment running a game takes and most don't care. If your body of staff is RLing when 10 players are online? Those 10 players are leaving. Bye bye. Taking 10 days to process ONE app? Bye bye. Their group imploded over some weird politics talk in their private build? Too bad. Lost 5 players. That friendly group of players that loved you suddenly hates you? Too bad, you don't get to know why. Creating a game requires work. Playing it... requires decidedly less, and most people are not willing to put in the effort. The only thing you count on players to do is act like players.
On the whole... "You're welcomed to play where you want, and should feel that way." I also don't agree. I think not all playstyles can be welcomed in all games. A MLP game shouldn't welcome an openly cannibal pony character. I mean, I don't watch the show, but it seems like it just doesn't fit.
And even if it fits within theme? Some things need to be kept in your playgroup. I once staffed in a game where, for two weeks straight, I got logs of cannibalism and rape from the same pack, and players of said scenes requiring rolls and reporting each other and then taking the complaints back. No staff should ever have to handle this sort of crap.
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@sunnyj said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:
If your body of staff is RLing when 10 players are online? Those 10 players are leaving. Bye bye.
That's not universally true. On the places I play, folks are perfectly content when staff is absent. Heck, I've run entire games all by myself; others have been run by two people. As long as things are responded to in a timely fashion it's no big deal. It comes down to how you structure your game and what you let players accomplish on their own.
@sunnyj said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:
"But muh story! My chardev" isn't really investment. People drop and pick up characters very easily
Really? My experience is the opposite. "My story!" is the most investment you're ever going to get from a lot of players, and they cling to it like it's the one true ring. "My presssccciiiouusssssss."
Maybe it's because there are so many WoD games that you can trade one for another easily, whereas you're not likely to say "Screw this! I'll go find another!" on a Western or Battlestar game since there really aren't any others.
I do agree that running a game is a crap-ton of work and not all playstyles and concepts fit on - or should be allowed on - all games. But there are a variety of possible MUSH experiences, and some of them do more closely resemble the tight-knit connections and focused stories of tabletop. It's not some impossible unicorn.
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@faraday Oh yeah. I am sharing my side of things. The more unique the game, the more likely players are to cling to it and work with it.
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I actually agree with both of you.
(And I think I know the situation you're describing, @SunnyJ, and... if it is what I think it is, all the ugh. If it isn't, I'm like, "OMFG HOW DID THAT HAPPEN TWICE?!" and there's even more ugh.)
Oh fucking well.
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@surreality Pretty sure we are both in synch here. =|
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@sunnyj Oh, Rex/Angelo, you just keep on givin'.
Consider lots of booze sent in the spirit of so. much. empathy.(Also, omg, he tried the cannibal thing again?! I know I curb-stomped that shit once. Color me totally not surprised he wouldn't accept the ruling of someone with a vagina the first time and tried again. Though there's some joy that he apparently never got the penis-of-authority he wanted to answer him.)
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@sunnyj I guess I'm still on that 'look on the bright side of death' part of things. Still, regardless of all the shit I've had to personally walk through.
I get what you're saying, too, and I see your points, and I'm not saying 'play something that doesn't fit theme', what I'm saying is players should feel welcomed where they go. Granted, they have to be able to talk and compromise, but they should at least not feel like they run into a brick wall when they first start blurbing out ideas.
Sure, it's shitty. Staff has to handle a lot, and I know that not having their presence on game can be a killer. I still think that it's about support on both sides of the table/screen/what have you.
EDIT: Also, sorry that was all such a jumble up there. I really shouldn't post things when I'm tired and word vomiting.
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@rizbunz Being supportive of players is very important, for sure. I don't like to be downer either, but I think pink-tinted goggles haven't ever helped a game before, so I thought I might share my experiences.
Players will not ever not be players. If you think like this, you'll be prepared for the worst, and pleasantly surprised when The One surprises you.
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The welcome thing is... sticky.
Players willing to play by the rules and abide by theme should always be made to feel welcome; their feedback, ideas, etc. as well.
Players unwilling to do so, not so much. Someone showing up on a strictly PvE game and trying to turn it into a strictly PvP game shouldn't be coddled and encouraged in that endeavor, for instance; same with SunnyJ's cannibal pony example. This doesn't mean they're bad players, or bad people; it just means it's not the game for them and their attempts to force the game to be what they want it to be in a way that damages the experience of others is not something to embrace with open arms.
There are also some players who, over time, have demonstrated that they are going to be the metaphorical turd in the punch bowl in the kind of environment -- IC and OOC -- most games these days prefer to foster*. We're talking the Spiders and Sovereigns, here, for the most part, but there are others who have zero qualms indulging in some of the worst divisive and damaging behaviors without hesitation or remorse.
- Civil if not friendly and chill and more cooperative than combative OOC, adhering to the reality of the game world as intended by the M*'s creator's IC.
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@sunnyj said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:
@rizbunz Being supportive of players is very important, for sure. I don't like to be downer either, but I think pink-tinted goggles haven't ever helped a game before, so I thought I might share my experiences.
Players will not ever not be players. If you think like this, you'll be prepared for the worst, and pleasantly surprised when The One surprises you.
A lot of people on MUs play Who-Cares-More chicken, with players or staff driving a Work And Investment car at one another and seeing who will actually do more work and make things more fun, and the person that does that gets screwed when the other person inevitably abandons it or treats it carelessly.
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This hobby would be about a thousand times more enjoyable with a little more chill and a lot more self-awareness but Β―_(γ)_/Β― it'll never happen and this is why a lot of us don't staff anymore and fuck humans etc etc.
I mean, I deeply appreciate that a lot of people still do. It's shit a lot of days.
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Mmm. I'm thankful for all the advice and everything, too. A bundle of experiences is mighty helpful. Especially, especially, when using THIS setting as your game's theme.
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@apos said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:
A lot of people on MUs play Who-Cares-More chicken,
You know I think you just helped me realize how I have managed to avoid almost all on-game drama during my (not really) illustrious MU* career. I am pretty much the living embodiment of The Battle for Who Could Care Less.or the drama is aimed directly away from me.
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I think any WoD game really should have articles on Bleed and management of such as a mandatory reading, honestly. It's a thing that I've seen in both MU* and LARP, and it's something that I feel is a lot more heavy in the WoD. Bleed isn't bad, but it has to be managed.
https://arc-adelaide.com.au/2017/03/10/10-steps-to-manage-your-own-bleed/
https://nordiclarp.org/2015/03/02/bleed-the-spillover-between-player-and-character/
Stuff like that. I've found that addressing that in LARPs has helped immensely in the 'YOU'RE NOT ATTACKING MY CHARACTER YOU'RE ATTACKING ME!' mentality.
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@sunnyj said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:
Being supportive of players is very important, for sure. I don't like to be downer either, but I think pink-tinted goggles haven't ever helped a game before, so I thought I might share my experiences.
Darling, if you just want to make an oWoD Vampire game, I'd be more than happy to play with you.
I'll even play a Toreador.
βIt is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.β -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@ganymede We need the game first!
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@sunnyj said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:
We need the game first!
sigh We could ask @Thenomain really nicely, I suppose.
βIt is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.β -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@ganymede said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:
@sunnyj said in oWoD - Is there such thing as a good one?:
We need the game first!
sigh We could ask @Thenomain really nicely, I suppose.
Thenomain rubs his thumb against his forefingers in a knowing gesture.
βIf you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.β
β Carl Sagan, Cosmos
