Forgiveness in Mushing

[surreality]

@ganymede The people who do this shit tend to feel out people that can be pushed around, at least to an extent.

Typically, the targets are people who aren't inclined to want to rock the boat, tend to keep their heads down, don't aim for the spotlight all the time, don't want to waste time with drama or OOC conflict, etc.

Then they exploit those generally positive traits in a negative way -- because the know that person won't want drama with them, and they can be pushed, and pushed, and pushed. They push a little harder once in a while to see what they can get away with, too, and people get used to it. It's shitty, but plenty of people do.

You stonewall that kind of bullshit from the jump. It makes a world of difference, and tells this type: 'this is not going to be an easy tool, move along'.

[faraday]

@ganymede said in Forgiveness in Mushing:

I guess this might speak to how detached I am to certain parts of this hobby, but if this stuff is actually commonplace,

I think it varies by game. I haven't seen a lot of that "mean girl" nonsense either, either personally or in terms of player complaints.

There are certainly some instances of what @Ghost described as "red card" offenses, but the vast majority of player disputes boil down to the MU equivalent of "He shot me!" "No he didn't!" playground nonsense that escalates into toxicity and grudges. "OMG he broke my toy / min-maxed more than me to get ahead / made me look bad / etc. He's the absolute worst and now I will behave like a jerk about it!"

[mietze]

I also think the people targeted tend to be people that the targeter thinks (rightly or wrongly) are in a weakened position or able to be driven out/away. It makes a difference if they think that you can't be/won't be or if they wish you to be present.

It's not even always about a slight or even an argument. I have seen that behavior directed at people who didn't even harm the person, they just annoyed them oocly, and they knew that they could get away with that behavior.

It's a very small minority on game or RL, but there /are/ people who totally get off on exerting that type of power on other people. Usually eventually they make a mistake in who they try it on, which is when the tide starts to turn. Fortunately it can be a behavior that is also grown out of. Not very often, but it can be.

[insomniac7809]

It's kind of an interesting thought.

I mean, we're not talking about depriving people of their fundamental liberties, here. I agree that the backbiting and Mean Girlsing that can happen in a MU* can be overblown and excessive, and the fights get nasty when the stakes are small.

But we're talking about what I do to waste my free time playing pretendyfun elfgames. If someone's made the experience actively unpleasant for me before, I'm certainly under no obligation to let bygones be bygones and walk into the same situation that turned my funtimes into a dramatic headache in the past.

And frankly... well, @Aria will tell you that I don't usually get worked up about much of anything, never mind game stuff. Anyone who does appear on what passes for my shitlist has probably pulled the "I'm doing better now" thing enough for it to go past "fool me twice, shame on me" and into "oh shut up silly woman said the reptile with a grin,/ you knew damn well I was a snake before you let me in."

[Caryatid]

@ganymede It isn't that you remain wholly separate, it's that you're oblivious to it going on.

[Ganymede]

I think I may have figured out my magical abilities.

@paris said in Forgiveness in Mushing:

You're probably not involved with whoever that person decides is theirs, or in the plot they've decided is theirs, etc.

It's more likely that I don't care if that person makes that call.

@surreality said in Forgiveness in Mushing:

Typically, the targets are people who aren't inclined to want to rock the boat, tend to keep their heads down, don't aim for the spotlight all the time, don't want to waste time with drama or OOC conflict, etc.

I don't like to rock boats. I keep my head down. I don't always aim for the spotlight. I hate wasting time. And yet, I'm not a target, apparently, or --

@caryatid said in Forgiveness in Mushing:

It isn't that you remain wholly separate, it's that you're oblivious to it going on.

-- I'm so oblivious that I'm being targeted that I don't sense anything happen.

I mean, maybe people have been horning me out of games preemptively. "Let's not RP with Ganymede so that she gets bored and wanders elsewhere!" I guess that may have been happening.

Honestly, I don't notice, and I don't care. Like, if that's the sort of petty bitchery people want to get into, that's fine with me.

Sooner or later, God'll cut 'em down.

[Livia]

@ganymede I dunno despite being beside some of The Drama lately, on the whole I don't seem to notice this stuff either.

[Caryatid]

@ganymede Oh no, I haven't actually seen anyone targeting you for this nonsense. I think your no-nonsense style of interaction goes a long way towards helping that and it's something I've tried to model with varying degrees of success (mostly less) because I think it does help act as a sort of... drama prophylactic.

But there has been high school drama whirling around you and I've seen it pass notice, or need to be explained because you missed it. The ghoul player on RfK, for instance, who chased Cai on two separate characters and was trying to wedge me out because she resented Nora being there (she mavved a gloating page to a buddy of hers into the all-game meeting about me leaving the game when staff fuckery reached a head there, for one instance of her constant shenanigans targeting me as an evil cockblocker).

It's not a bad thing. Or a bad superpower to have. But not witnessing it doesn't mean it isn't widespread.

[surreality]

@ganymede My point is more this: when people try to push, they hit a stone wall and don't get anywhere with it. Null response. Whether it's just not giving a crap about the gossipy bullshit, having no idea what they're talking about, or 'nope, not listening to this shit', stonewalling works.

It's pretty much the only thing that works.

[Ganymede]

@caryatid said in Forgiveness in Mushing:

But there has been high school drama whirling around you and I've seen it pass notice, or need to be explained because you missed it. The ghoul player on RfK, for instance, who chased Cai on two separate characters and was trying to wedge me out because she resented Nora being there ... .

I'm sorry that it affected your play.

I miss Nora an awful lot. And grumpyfacecat.

And my attempts to recreate him have largely been for naught.

Except for grumpyfaceturtle.

[Thenomain]

@ganymede said in Forgiveness in Mushing:

Honestly, I don't notice, and I don't care.

Because forgiveness is what happens when we feel wronged.

If we didn’t feel wronged, there’s nothing to forgive.

I can sincerely say that every well adjusted person I know just knows this at a “that’s life” level.

Some day I will be as good as them.

—

Or I’ll be as good as Bill Murray, tho if I can be The Real Ghostbusters version I would prefer it.

[Caryatid]

@ganymede I miss them too! One crazy jealous possessive chick’s antics are not enough to affect or remove the fun I had there with those characters.

[emoeeyore]

I have been forgiven a thousand times. I have forgiven a thousand times. And that's just with @Sunny. With others, the same. And sometimes I've deserved forgiveness, sometimes I didn't. Sometimes the person I forgave deserved forgiveness, sometimes they didn't. There is actually only one person that I forgave that I completely regret it now. Though, that person seems to think that they were the wronged party then and that them violating my boundaries in a way that could literally be harmful to me in my day to day and in person life is also me being abusive. But then again, that person is notoriously delusional. Over all, however, I will say that I almost always find that forgiving is worth it, even if the person isn't.