Dec 10, 2018, 9:27 PM
But that's not a problem, so what is the PROBLEM that people are trying to solve?
Constructive (keyword) Criticism of Arx Systems
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But that's not a problem, so what is the PROBLEM that people are trying to solve?
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@groth you realize that josephine's insanity pieces are NOT meant to be effecient and thus cannot and should not be taken into account yeah?
Like, they're part of an ic project. If I wanted effecient I would quite frankly stick to neclaces, of luxury metal with a handful of precious and semiprecious stones, refined to green.
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@sunny said in Constructive (keyword) Criticism of Arx Systems:
But what problem does requiring a model to wear an outfit for a week solve? What is even the point? Like...why?
The goal would be to reward the people who enjoy making new outfits while discouraging making outfits for the sole goal of scoring points with no intention of ever using them as outfits.
If you wanted to take Auspices approach further while wanting to make it hard to 'cheat', you could make it a counter based on the emits received while wearing the item in order to turn it into 'worn for a scene or two' instead of idling.
Is it worthwhile? I don't know, often trying to discourage 'cheating' makes things a lot less enjoyable for everyone else who just want to have fun. Are people making items named 'for modeling' and junking them a real issue?
What is obvious to you may not be obvious to me and vice versa.
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@jeshin cane was 300k of grayson money, 348k of my own. I have blown probably a good almost 2.5 million on the project with about 425k coming from pc houses.
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Staff has literally said many times it is not a problem, people are not doing it, so I want to know why people are suggesting that we punish models more. This isn't a problem. What problem is trying to be solved?
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Alas it would have been better for my argument if someone had used +work to get the money to fund the item to demonstrate engagement via extra coderuns.
However the whole RP bent of the item and other items like it is the most valuable engagement story/character development engagement so that still does make my point that a single model coderun can represent engagement with the 'system' that expands past that one player and that one command!
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@jibberthehut said in Constructive (keyword) Criticism of Arx Systems:
@jeshin cane was 300k of grayson money, 348k of my own. I have blown probably a good almost 2.5 million on the project with about 425k coming from pc houses.
You haven't built an Amber Room, yet, so I don't think there's anything excessive in that or the prestige gained from it. ( The Amber Room at its height before its destruction would have been valued, roughly, like 124 million modern dollars. Great Houses should spend lots of money on beautiful, useless things! It's their job! https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/a-brief-history-of-the-amber-room-160940121/#bCX1mj3uTlrvtfjm.99)
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@sunny said in Constructive (keyword) Criticism of Arx Systems:
Staff has literally said many times it is not a problem, people are not doing it, so I want to know why people are suggesting that we punish models more. This isn't a problem. What problem is trying to be solved?
The problem right now appears to be extremely few people are using the modeling command. I think that's because of a combination of relatively high skill/stat requirements to get big shiny numbers and that people feel they need to save their modelings for the zomghugh events.
I think the suggestion that the outfit should be worn for a time should be seen as a replacement of the current requirement to be in a hugh event. A thing that's easy to do and encourages people to get out there.
What is obvious to you may not be obvious to me and vice versa.
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How is punishment going to make people use it more?
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@sunny said in Constructive (keyword) Criticism of Arx Systems:
How is punishment going to make people use it more?
Explain to me how it's a punishment.
What is obvious to you may not be obvious to me and vice versa.
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@jeshin came from grayson. The rest has been me either having used haggle, selling mats privately instead of through brokers, people paying off their purchases from big ticket jewelry or just buying jewelry. I don't run work code. My patron runs code and I get resources that I trade for coin or use to buy materials inporting from the market or just donate for this cause or that cause. I used to quite frankly, make my money off haggle and broker, selling the higher end materials but lack of ap to actually haggle kills that.
Money from many sources. But i'm done my project si now blingy canes will be producing big numbers. Just one last request from someone to the benefit of a house of my choosing and I'm outsies.
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There's no REQUIREMENT that it be at a huge event, just a bonus if it is. The only requirement is that it be in public with other humans, as opposed to in your room by yourself.
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@saosmash said in Constructive (keyword) Criticism of Arx Systems:
There's no REQUIREMENT that it be at a huge event, just a bonus if it is. The only requirement is that it be in public with other humans, as opposed to in your room by yourself.
Just like there's no REQUIREMENT that you train all your skills with a Teaching 5 teacher, but if you don't you throw away 45% of your XP or 90% of the value of your outfit.
You CAN, you're ALLOWED, but does it feel good?
What is obvious to you may not be obvious to me and vice versa.
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Staff implemented a 1.5 million per item and 5 million per outfit prestige gain cap during the assembly. This means that pound for pound insane opulent creations are worse than a snazzy silk outfit. This means there should be no system complaint that a crafter/house would spend 100,000s or millions on an item. They are not exploiting some scaling of the system they are in fact throwing money away. Which is fine.
The only issue there would be with the $$$ value of items is if the barrier of entry to 'competitive' benefits was so high as to exclude the bulk of the grid or potentially exclude individuals from modeling but require entire houses to commit to a modeling item/outfit to make it effective. Which isn't the case, but that would be an issue if it was like 1 million silver value item/outfit or bust to get appreciable gains.
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@groth or, quite seriously, the sheer amount of screaming over the unfairness and tge how dare you have something shiney has made people unwilling to engage it further because it taints the joy from making new things. That, coupled with "must be in public" combibed with forthcoming changes means people are waiting or are just plain unwilling to be dealing with the drama.
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@groth said in Constructive (keyword) Criticism of Arx Systems:
Is it worthwhile? I don't know, often trying to discourage 'cheating' makes things a lot less enjoyable for everyone else who just want to have fun. Are people making items named 'for modeling' and junking them a real issue?
It was something we noticed happening, albeit not commonly; it was a hole in the system we thus thought we should close. Making the modeling stuff have a big benefit for running it in public was the response to that, as I detailed before, to encourage people to make real outfits to show off. But it seems that the fuss that's caused—having modeling be something you do in public rather than privately in your rooms—is far worse than the initial problem of people gaming the edge case of the system.
Hence why I'm going to gut and rewrite the prestige system to handle a bunch of things—including modeling—differently. As part of that overall rewrite, among other changes, modeling will no longer have to happen in public. This means modeling won't be nearly as rewarding any longer—since as part of those changes there won't be any benefit for doing it at a large event for an adoring crowd of prominent citizens—but hopefully it reduces people's pain points and encourages the use of modeling again.
(Staff's got some other ideas on a different system to make it worthwhile to show off things in public—and make social resources a little more useful, while we're at it—but they're still in a sort of half-gelled state right now, and not quite ready to detail.)
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People are probably using modeling less not because of numbers but because of the insanely ugly nasty ooc behavior towards those players who were thought to be using it "too much" in "ways I can't/dont like.:
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@groth 99% of my sheets from both alts, I have from raw buying skills.
I'm not bovvered.
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@mietze This. So hard.
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Or out of fear that they are not doing it right because their skills are "too low/not good enough."