Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?

[Wizz]

@surreality

It's sad as fuck that Evennia could be used that way, yes.

[bear_necessities]

@Wizz wtf happened?

[Tinuviel]

That's definitely a very different take on NPCs compared to what I had in mind...

[Taika]

Sounds like some of the things Portland was doing.

[Darinelle]

@Wizz said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

Or even worse, putting YOURSELF through that mindfuck, especially if you're inebriated or have mental health issues?

Which is exactly what happened to you on Arx, since pretty much everything you think was going on wasn't actually going on. The only differential among what staffers can and can't do is that Tehom and NV lock down some of the delete permissions really hard, to prevent staffers like me from inadvertently deleting critical things that force them to revert to backups. But that has nothing to do with view permissions. Oh. And all staffers know who other staffers play and what is an NPC and a PC. Also as a player, if you @sheet char and nothing comes up? It's an NPC. And the PCs you think were staffbits really, really weren't.

I hope that gets you to a healthier place, because the last few days have been weird with you and I'll admit I'm a bit worried. Take care of yourself, wherever you decide to play next.

@Derp

I've avoided responding to things that do not require my attention from players who have been so abusive to me that I would ban them except that their behavior has been limited directly and specifically to me. If staff as a whole have discussed player behavior, and staff as a whole does not ban someone, but I am pretty much done with their accusations and bullshit and madness? Someone else can answer their actions and handle their jobs. Could I do it? Absolutely. But why would I? That's part of why no GM is an island, right?

Regarding equal access to NPCs and such...

My reward as a staffer is getting to tell the stories I want to tell. Those stories still center around players, not my NPCs - but I will continue to tell them with the people I enjoy. It goes in cycles - I'll tell stories for this group, and then I'll tell stories for a different, non-overlapping group when that arc is done, and so on. That's what I do for relaxation. (Other than spend a lot of non-computer time in armor)

Everyone should have equal access to the main plot. That doesn't mean I can't tell stories in my off time. They're like PrPs, but as a staffer I have access enough to metaplot and secrets that it can feel like it's super super super hella important even if it doesn't affect the whole of the game. Sorrynotsorry, I'm not going to stop using my relaxation time to tell stories, and I don't always want to find a different game that will let me tell PrPs as a non-staffer.

If I give a game, say - 30 hours a week of staff time (this is an incredibly low estimate of how much time I spend staffing on Arx) and I want to spend 3 hours telling a story that's basically just lore and a PC's personal story and collaborative RP? I'm going to do it, and I'm not going to feel bad for not inviting Fred Who Makes Every Scene An Exhausting Drag to join it. I'll probably have already resolved Fred's action anyway.

[Kanye Qwest]

@Darinelle Nor should you feel bad. There's this sensible line of what staff should or shouldn't do re: characters they play and most people see staffers missing it (or assume that's what they are seeing) and forevermore it's 'staffers should never x'.

Eff that. If you put work into a game making it fun for other people, you also get to have fun. If that means you take a npc along on an adventure to rp with your friends or provide help outside what they can do/hindrance as a villain, you get to do that. If that means asking other staffers or pcs to facilitate scenes that ARE about your characters, so they can have growth and fun? YOU GET TO DO THAT. If it means rping an NPC that you enjoy with players that are enriched by that story and by the time spent rping with you? You get to do that.

And you should not ever feel bad about it.

[Arkandel]

I don't think anyone (reasonable) has an issue with either staff members or other STs running things for smaller subgroups of people, including their own friends or excluding problem players. None of us are getting paid for any of this so we all still need to be entertained somehow or we won't be doing it in the long term.

When it comes to my post earlier in the thread, it referred to signs an NPC might be ran as a PC. They weren't supposed to be definite markers of impropriety - or at least I certainly didn't mean them to be. Obviously there are perfectly good, valid reasons why (say) an NPC is to only be played by one staff member but not others.

However in the past, and it's not rare, there have been NPCs on games who were basically playable characters in all but name with abilities, ranks or privileges unavailable to regular players, and who staff treated as their personal favorites in a way that it definitely showed, going as far as to be defensive about actions meant to assault or disparage these NPCs' positions or influence.

This is a pretty awkward position to put your players in.

[Thenomain]

@Darinelle said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

Everyone should have equal access to the main plot.

I'm going to quibble. Or maybe agree.

It's impossible edit: incredibly challenging for everyone to have the same access to the main plot on games that aren't structured like Greatest Generation or HorrorMu*. There are not enough hours in the day to give equal time and access to everyone, even if they are more proactive in engaging staff for it.

This does, of course, depend on what the "main plot" is. I'd consider a main plot well-crafted if your statement is correct. A mage, a werewolf, and a vampire walk into a plot. What happens next tells us a lot.

[Darinelle]

@Thenomain You're not wrong, so instead I'll say this:

Everyone should have equal access to the tools used to interact with the main plot(s). Those tools should be resolved, and stories progressed, regardless of how well liked you are or aren't by staff, but rather based on your use of those tools.

If a mage, a werewolf, and a vampire walk into a plot, then their interaction with said plot should be dependent upon their actions and their abilities and their relationship to what's going on. Equal access doesn't mean the same outcomes or story, just that if I say: "The sun is shining and the sky is blue and also there was a huge explosion on Main Street," then a vampire might come and scent the blood and hear the screams of the dying. The werewolf might show up and scent who planted the bomb, and try to track them away from the scene of the crime to figure out who did it. The mage might come and magically try to reverse the damage, or see what happened.

That is, to my mind, equal access.

If I, as a GM, decide to engage with Susan The Good RPer Who I Like about her boyfriend who was trapped in the rubble, and she goes through a plot to search for him, only to find out that he wasn't even there because he was stuck in the Hedge because he's secretly a changeling and now what will happen to them?

That really doesn't have anything to do with the main plot, and it's something I want to tell on my own time. While I'm resolving the actions of the werewolf, the vampire, and the mage, I can still tell this other story as relaxation and refreshment without, I think, veering over the lines of what is ethical. The main plot isn't really affected by Susan's plot. It's relevant to HER, and it's representative of her relationship with me that I'm interested in telling this story, and she gets a good depth of character development for it too, but I don't think it's a problem either.

[Lotherio]

@Thenomain said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

A mage, a werewolf, and a vampire walk into a plot. What happens next tells us a lot.

You can only take one to the bar at a time by crossing the floor. If you leave the werewolf with the vampire, the werewolf stakes them, if you leave the vampire with the mage, the vampire drains them. How do you get all three to the bar.

[cocopuffs]

@Taika The WoD? Is it dead?

[deadculture]

@Darinelle Is this a function of the 'Everything Is Connected' vs 'Individual Stories Matter To Specific People' paradox? Sure, dude got into the Hedge, but how was he taken there?

Conversely, what is Pentex doing that they're bribing the government to buy that lot that just got demolished?

[Thenomain]

More quibbles, but first a word from our sponsor:

I agree one hundred percent.

I agree that access should be fair, even to the point of removing your personal feeling about people (assuming they're not abusing you while you're working with them—eff that ess in the ay). Some people aren't good at that. I can be terrible at that, but it's a goal worth aiming toward.

@Darinelle said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

something I want to tell on my own time

What is staff's "own time"? I usually consider every moment a staffer is logged in to be their own time to get done what needs done however they feel is appropriate, as long as they're reasonable about it.

[Darinelle]

@Thenomain I consider "my own time" to be time I am logged into a game but not answering questions directly, not actively working on responses to actions or requests, or otherwise dealing with the Running of the Game. When someone pings me "hey, do you have a second?" when it's "my own time" I say "I really don't, could you please put it in a request?"

Of course, I might still be GMing or answering actions but it's a moment where I mentally give myself the OK to not respond to everything.

[Wizz]

@Darinelle said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Wizz said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

Or even worse, putting YOURSELF through that mindfuck, especially if you're inebriated or have mental health issues?

Which is exactly what happened to you on Arx, since pretty much everything you think was going on wasn't actually going on. The only differential among what staffers can and can't do is that Tehom and NV lock down some of the delete permissions really hard, to prevent staffers like me from inadvertently deleting critical things that force them to revert to backups. But that has nothing to do with view permissions. Oh. And all staffers know who other staffers play and what is an NPC and a PC. Also as a player, if you @sheet char and nothing comes up? It's an NPC. And the PCs you think were staffbits really, really weren't.

You are so full of shit and it's honestly hilarious. Of course, since Valenzo's player bit was set to his player account and had no real view permissions other than what you all set on your game, there's really nothing I can take and show you, aside from player reactions in the Whites, some of which are p. subtle.

Seriously, fuck Arx. What a messed up little circle of staff/players and a fucked up OOC environment.

I will gladly go elsewhere, thanks.

[Kodiak]

@Wizz Buddy. This doesn't really make sense. What do you even mean? You're getting pretty hostile pretty fast without saying what the issue is.

[Kanye Qwest]

@Wizz said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Darinelle said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

@Wizz said in Difference between an NPC and a Staff PC?:

Or even worse, putting YOURSELF through that mindfuck, especially if you're inebriated or have mental health issues?

Which is exactly what happened to you on Arx, since pretty much everything you think was going on wasn't actually going on. The only differential among what staffers can and can't do is that Tehom and NV lock down some of the delete permissions really hard, to prevent staffers like me from inadvertently deleting critical things that force them to revert to backups. But that has nothing to do with view permissions. Oh. And all staffers know who other staffers play and what is an NPC and a PC. Also as a player, if you @sheet char and nothing comes up? It's an NPC. And the PCs you think were staffbits really, really weren't.

You are so full of shit and it's honestly hilarious. Of course, since Valenzo's player bit was set to his player account and had no real view permissions other than what you all set on your game, there's really nothing I can take and show you, aside from player reactions in the Whites, some of which are p. subtle.

Seriously, fuck Arx. What a messed up little circle of staff/players and a fucked up OOC environment.

I will gladly go elsewhere, thanks.

Valenzo was never anything but a player character. Dude, no hard feelings (I mean at least from me). I really hope things level out for you soon.

[Arkandel]

Folks, whatever Arx-related drama there is here, please take it to a different thread.

Also please keep in mind this is in the Constructive category. Please don't take potshots and personally flame people - this is not the place for it.

[Thenomain]

@Arkandel

Dude, where were you two days ago? Four days ago?

This is not a potshot, just an open comment phrased as a question that doesn't need answered.

Ta.

[Arkandel]

@Thenomain MSB comes with a full money back guarantee for its administrative lapses.