Fandom and entitlement
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probably had a lot more to do with the movie being 100% horrible trash. Batman and by extension Catwoman had a much larger fanbase than comic book readers at that point, due to the successful batman movies and TAS
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@insomniac7809 said in Fandom and entitlement:
The Mummy remake, meanwhile, shifted to 'safe' by (according to what I've read) emphasizing the role of its bankable white dude lead
When you say "the Mummy remake", I am guessing from "in a use of an IP that had paid off big not too long back" that you mean the 2017 disaster that happened to share a title, not the 1999 remake (which was legitimately called a 'remake' of the original 1932 movie, though it's a loose one at best).
I'm only double-checking because you're drawing parallels with a 1998 movie that came out around the same time as the 1999 remake. And if you're talking smack about Rick and Evelyn, I will object with every fiber of my soul. Because what's wrong with that movie? What would I change about it?
a.k.a. Packetdancer (or "Pax" for short)
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Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@Auspice said in Fandom and entitlement:
I object strenuously to the claim that Rick addresses all problems "by shooting at them". That is a gross mischaracterization and does not do justice to the true breadth of Rick O'Connell's potential solutions to the problems he comes across; yes, he does shoot quite a lot of them, but he's also seen to wave a sword at problems, and frequently screams at them as a fallback option.
Sometimes he even does more than one of those things at the same time!
a.k.a. Packetdancer (or "Pax" for short)
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@Sparks said in Fandom and entitlement:
@Auspice said in Fandom and entitlement:
I object strenuously to the claim that Rick addresses all problems "by shooting at them". That is a gross mischaracterization and does not do justice to the truth breadth of Rick O'Connell's potential solutions to the problems he comes across; yes, he does shoot quite a lot of them, but he's also seen to wave a sword at problems, and frequently screams at them as a fallback option.
Sometimes he even does more than one of those things at the same time!
THIS IS TRUE.
Even so, I love Honest Trailers and I was pleased as punch that The Mummy was one of the first for their SUMMER BLOCKBUSTER theme.
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@Auspice — I still love people contrasting Rick's encounter with Imhotep in the Mummy, and Carol's encounter with the Skrull agent in Captain Marvel. They are pretty damned near identical:
- Confront thing.
- Thing roars/screams.
- Roar/scream back.
- Follow up with attack.
Similarly, both Rick and Carol have been known to wield a cat (or flerkin) as an impromptu tool to frighten off enemies. This has led to a joking fan theory that Carol is a descendent of the O'Connells, like their great-grandchild. Which I find a delightful thought.
a.k.a. Packetdancer (or "Pax" for short)
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@Sparks said in Fandom and entitlement:
Similarly, both Rick and Carol have been known to wield a cat (or flerkin) as an impromptu tool to frighten off enemies. This has led to a joking fan theory that Carol is a descendent of the O'Connells, like their great-grandchild. Which I find a delightful thought.
Or that people still enjoy the idea of hurling pussy at a problem to take care of it.
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Well.
Fury was the one who wielded Goose more than anyone in Captain Marvel.And he did it so well, too.
That man needs to carry a flerkin more than a gun.
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@Auspice said in Fandom and entitlement:
Fury was the one who wielded Goose more than anyone in Captain Marvel.
If there was ever a badass motherfucker that knew how to use a pussy, it'd be Shaft.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@Ganymede said in Fandom and entitlement:
@Auspice said in Fandom and entitlement:
Fury was the one who wielded Goose more than anyone in Captain Marvel.
If there was ever a badass motherfucker that knew how to use a pussy, it'd be Shaft.
Shut yo' mouth!
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inserts fandom entitlement IT'S NOT FUCKING GOOSE... It's Chewie. Best wingman. best co-pilot.
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@LittleLizard said in Fandom and entitlement:
inserts fandom entitlement IT'S NOT FUCKING GOOSE... It's Chewie. Best wingman. best co-pilot.
Look. We must acknowledge that there is a movie verse and a comic verse.
Or else I have to rage a lot about Wanda.
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@insomniac7809 said in Fandom and entitlement:
Like, Catwoman was considered a risk, because it was a superhero movie about a POC woman (even if Halle Barry probably works for a gender flip of the "any white male, or Will Smith" criteria that movies were using in ~1998). It flopped, but that might have had more to do with the movie being steaming garbage on toast.
I don't think that Catwoman flopped or was "risky" because she was a POC. I think it's pretty well documented that it had a shitty script/screenwriting, people didn't like the character design (open for heels), and that critics butchered it in the press. At the time Halle Berry was losing her strength as a leading lady with Gothika and Die Another Day.
Hancock netted over 400 million in profits, Halle Berry was well liked in the X-Men movies, and both have a pretty loyal fan base. So when you're talking "Black Leading Actor/Actress", you gotta look at what is successful and compare it to what wasn't successful, then ask why. In Catwoman's case it's pretty clearly that it was considered all around to be a shitty film with a 9% tomatometer and 18% fan score on rotten tomatoes.
Delete the Hog Pit. It'll be fun.
I really don't understand He-Man -
@Ghost said in Fandom and entitlement:
@insomniac7809 said in Fandom and entitlement:
Like, Catwoman was considered a risk, because it was a superhero movie about a POC woman (even if Halle Barry probably works for a gender flip of the "any white male, or Will Smith" criteria that movies were using in ~1998). It flopped, but that might have had more to do with the movie being steaming garbage on toast.
I don't think that Catwoman flopped or was "risky" because she was a POC. I think it's pretty well documented that it had a shitty script/screenwriting, people didn't like the character design (open for heels), and that critics butchered it in the press. At the time Halle Berry was losing her strength as a leading lady with Gothika and Die Another Day.
Hancock netted over 400 million in profits, Halle Berry was well liked in the X-Men movies, and both have a pretty loyal fan base. So when you're talking "Black Leading Actor/Actress", you gotta look at what is successful and compare it to what wasn't successful, then ask why. In Catwoman's case it's pretty clearly that it was considered all around to be a shitty film with a 9% tomatometer and 18% fan score on rotten tomatoes.
I think we all know that. It flopped because it was terrible. The point is that there's generally strong sentiment that you hear in Hollywood wherein that flop is taken as reason/excuse to "take fewer risks" on movies led by PoC and women. That is: they take the wrong lessons from it, because it's easy to just continue to add excuses to the overall pile of "if we make a movie with PoC, white people won't see it, and if we make a movie with women, men won't see it," etc.
tl;dr Hollywood is incredibly risk-averse but it's also not great at identifying its own opportunities.
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@Roz Question, though. I think a lot of people assume that Hollywood chooses to "not take chances on women or POC", but has anyone actually seen, read, or heard (interviews/articles) where it's explained by the people who make the decisions that they're not "taking chances" on women or POC?
I'd be curious to see some actual details on that. Mind you, this isn't me saying "prove it or you're wrong", but more so that people get passionate and like to theorize, and theories don't necessarily equate to what is truly going on. I think there's a lot of speculation, and that it isn't necessarily about women or POC specifically, but that they (Hollywood) is constantly having to rotate and search for ones that put butts in the seats.
Hollywood is a pep rally that knows they're gonna make money off of the popular actors/actresses. Truth is, for whatever reasons particular actresses/actors don't track well, that's more on whether or not we are giving them our money.
Delete the Hog Pit. It'll be fun.
I really don't understand He-Man -
@Ghost what ARE you asking for? There are dozens upon dozens of easily googled instances of people reporting being told "people won't see movies directed by/led by women", but are you expecting a mustache twirling interview where a modern exec SAYS that directly to like a reporter???
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Women, POC, and gays.
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I mean, Paul Dini has outright said he's seen animated series cancelled because the viewership among girls was too high; network execs said that "girls won't buy the toys", and therefore the show wouldn't be as profitable as it could be, so they'd rather replace it with something that can have a more profitable toy line.
There was some discussion about this around the time Sucker Punch came out, as well.
Emma Watson and Olivia Wilde have commented on related topics.
I could keep looking, but I have to leave for an RL thing.
a.k.a. Packetdancer (or "Pax" for short)
