Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era)
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@secretfire said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
but I don't think people around temporarily is a problem.
Problems are 10% fact and 90% appearance.
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@secretfire said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
Not that the oldbie tried, as far as I could tell, but he did chase them when they ran, and the other oldbies seemed pretty dang annoyed.
He didn't just chase them. He tried to use his dinosaur equipment warehouse to jetpack up to the escape vehicle and blow it up with planted explosives (all in one round, btw) to kill them and their evac shuttle while those still standing were in full on retreat. It wasn't enough that he dominated the entire scene with his bloated xp and stupidly ridiculous equipment. He had to try to kill everyone he could.
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@Jynxbox Ha! Sounds like you met Tolssk. You have my sympathies. lol
ETA: But in all seriousness, keeping older characters is a bad idea, but using them to test out systems is understandable. However, if the goal is to test out higher level characters, pitting them against lower level characters isn't the way to do it. And in fact, why limit new players to the lower levels? Let people build Jedi Masters and get a bunch of altxp to spend. Then you can get a real test. Otherwise, its admirable to do the testing, but you're not going to get reliable data on what the actual game will look like.
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Hey there, Obie here. So first off, there's things being misinterpreted here.
"Please keep in mind that Star Wars Republic is currently in beta, there's new ideas put in here to try to allow more range of builds that remains viable even at max level. As we understand what works and what doesn't, we'll make tweaks and changes here and there. The work that players put in during beta will carry on over after beta is over in some manner, depending on how we go about it."
When I wrote that post, I kept it ambiguous because I haven't quite figured out what is appropriate so I'm gave myself room to avoid setting expectations.
The community culture that I'm trying to set is one of OOC collaboration so more fun experiences can be had. Scenes are being run to make sure the players who are participating in the beta is having fun and also becoming involved in the collaborative process. That didn't end up happening last night despite having spoken to the person in question for a lengthy period of time before this event and setting up expectations, so that player is going to be dealt with permanently because this is toxic to the community.
From these events, I've been learning from seeing how people are using the new houseruled feats and powers. It helped to have a mix of different levels.
As a result of last night's actions, past experiences, and also from observing player behaviour in chargen, I've decided to nix the random generated ability rolls that came with the system and stick with 32 point buy. It won't eliminate all the problematic behaviours, but it will make quite a few more manageable. So everyone is going through chargen come reset.
The reason why I haven't talked about what will carry over earlier is because I haven't figured everything out yet. I know I want the XPs people got from nomming each other during the beta to carry over, that was what my first post to others was about. When I've figured it out, there will a post made on it. If you're not sure what my thought processes is on the matter, just ask. We might find new perspectives unexpectedly.
Anyways, I'm sure there's more I need to learn to make enjoyable for as many people as possible. I don't aim to make it perfect for everyone, but the intention is to have a community with great vibes, works with each other well to come up with fun stories through collaborative efforts and give and take. The more lessons learned during beta, the smoother launch will be.
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@Obie said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
I've decided to nix the random generated ability rolls that came with the system
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@Obie said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
As a result of last night's actions, past experiences, and also from observing player behaviour in chargen, I've decided to nix the random generated ability rolls that came with the system and stick with 32 point buy.
I think that this is an excellent idea -- although I think I'd suggest a 36-point buy. Just a slight preference, but the 32 works plenty well too.
As for keeping dinosaur characters, that's a hard no from me. I had a very powerful character way back on Generations of Darkness, but a) I have no interest in bringing that character back, because I already told story with him, and b) even if I did, there is zero way I would ever expect or ask to be let back in with XP and gear that took me months (a year?) to earn. Saga Edition already has a major problem with dinosaurs, allowing dinosaur characters at starting is just exacerbating the problem.
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Nope. Dinosaurs are the worst. I'll have to pass on this too.
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Nah, old character won't be kept. I think that misunderstanding only happened because people just assumed and didn't think to ask.
We still have the Alt XP system on SWR. One of the ideas I originally had was old players will have to remake (now with the 32 PB, /everyone/ will have to remake to conform with the lower power curve) but say it takes 10,000XP to be level 8, and they had 12,000 XP, then if they start over again at level 8 the 2,000 XP they had in excess will be locked away only accessible only by Alt XP. Alt XP is also gated by levels too. So they'd have to go through the journeys of leveling up.
However, that's all in flux. After what I saw last night, I'm reconsidering quite a few things. This is why some policy hasn't been written up yet. In between thinking about this, I've been adding utility talent trees for Dark Siders, adding NPCs onto a NPC list for the community to use, running scenes so people don't get bored and wonder why the heck they're on a beta, and such. These are just all things I'm learning to juggle,but I knew what I was signing up for when I gave this project a go. Don't be surprised if I drop the ball a few times here and there, but the intentions is never intended to be malicious.
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@Obie said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
However, that's all in flux. After what I saw last night, I'm reconsidering quite a few things. This is why some policy hasn't been written up yet. In between thinking about this, I've been adding utility talent trees for Dark Siders, adding NPCs onto a NPC list for the community to use, running scenes so people don't get bored and wonder why the heck they're on a beta, and such. These are just all things I'm learning to juggle,but I knew what I was signing up for when I gave this project a go. Don't be surprised if I drop the ball a few times here and there, but the intentions is never intended to be malicious.
That's good to hear, at least! Might I suggest not adhering to a bell-curve? Lower power levels sound great at first, but as the game gets older, it only hurts new players. I'd recommend getting people to 7-8 quickly and then making it a slog to 9-11, then making it extremely difficult to get to 12+. But that's just my hot take on it.
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@Obie said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
Anyways, I'm sure there's more I need to learn to make enjoyable for as many people as possible. I don't aim to make it perfect for everyone, but the intention is to have a community with great vibes, works with each other well to come up with fun stories through collaborative efforts and give and take.
This is great and I fully support it. But the pessimist in me says that's an uphill battle. Especially when you have an era with PCs on opposing sides. Great vibes, possibly, but working well together... that is tougher. I'd like to think that people are more mature now that 5 years ago, but the story told above says 'not everyone' and sometimes all it takes is one to ruin the bunch.
One of the downsides to allowing dark side PCs, as someone mentioned on another board recently, is that dark side PCs have no built in motivation not to kill everything everywhere at all times. I feel for the players that had to deal with Tolssk in that scene, even moreso because of the xp imbalance. I've been there. But ICly he didn't do anything but follow his character. Tolssk kills as many as he can as often as he can. That's his thing. Even if it is other PCs. He's got no reason to do otherwise.
You'd have to find some way to come to an ooc understanding with dark side players that the game is not a free for all to kill everything that moves. And I'm not sure how you do that, honestly. You really just have to count on the integrity of the player to be cool. And I wish that was easy. It should be easy. But experience, even up to what was described yesterday, says that it is not.
However, I hope everyone finds a way to make it a possibility and not let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch.
ETA: I think making everyone point buy is a fantastic idea. The problem with attributes isn't how high some PCs have certain stats at. Its that only certain PCs have them there because they got a good roll when they made their character. That inequality breeds negative feelings, either towards other players or the character itself. If every PC has 20 in every stat, everyone is still as equally balanced as having every PC at 12 in every stat. Everyone is still on an even playing field. So for those averse to the point buy, maybe an increase in that number will balance that.
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@Lemon-Fox said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
@Obie said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
However, that's all in flux. After what I saw last night, I'm reconsidering quite a few things. This is why some policy hasn't been written up yet. In between thinking about this, I've been adding utility talent trees for Dark Siders, adding NPCs onto a NPC list for the community to use, running scenes so people don't get bored and wonder why the heck they're on a beta, and such. These are just all things I'm learning to juggle,but I knew what I was signing up for when I gave this project a go. Don't be surprised if I drop the ball a few times here and there, but the intentions is never intended to be malicious.
That's good to hear, at least! Might I suggest not adhering to a bell-curve? Lower power levels sound great at first, but as the game gets older, it only hurts new players. I'd recommend getting people to 7-8 quickly and then making it a slog to 9-11, then making it extremely difficult to get to 12+. But that's just my hot take on it.
Hrm, hey Lemon Fox. It's great that you got thoughts and suggestions on this. The good thing is what you suggested is already in place, it's been like that through several incarnation of the community because of the system we inherited from Dahan. Players have the choice of starting at level 1, 5, or 8. Getting XP has always been about how frequently you're RPing and with how many different people, so for some it's a slog, for others it's a journey, but by no means short. The game caps at level 12 for most players. Just like the past communities, people who are story drivers and a positive presence for the community, has the chance to ICly earn levels up to 14.
Some of the things you hear here within the last 24 hours has some distortion in there, and that's understandable and human. I welcome you to log on and take a peek at the system, and ask questions.
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@Warma-Sheen said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
@Obie said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
Anyways, I'm sure there's more I need to learn to make enjoyable for as many people as possible. I don't aim to make it perfect for everyone, but the intention is to have a community with great vibes, works with each other well to come up with fun stories through collaborative efforts and give and take.
This is great and I fully support it. But the pessimist in me says that's an uphill battle. Especially when you have an era with PCs on opposing sides. Great vibes, possibly, but working well together... that is tougher. I'd like to think that people are more mature now that 5 years ago, but the story told above says 'not everyone' and sometimes all it takes is one to ruin the bunch.
One of the downsides to allowing dark side PCs, as someone mentioned on another board recently, is that dark side PCs have no built in motivation not to kill everything everywhere at all times. I feel for the players that had to deal with Tolssk in that scene, even moreso because of the xp imbalance. I've been there. But ICly he didn't do anything but follow his character. Tolssk kills as many as he can as often as he can. That's his thing. Even if it is other PCs. He's got no reason to do otherwise.
You'd have to find some way to come to an ooc understanding with dark side players that the game is not a free for all to kill everything that moves. And I'm not sure how you do that, honestly. You really just have to count on the integrity of the player to be cool. And I wish that was easy. It should be easy. But experience, even up to what was described yesterday, says that it is not.
However, I hope everyone finds a way to make it a possibility and not let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch.
I plan to be vigilant about people who doesn't align with the vision of the community collaboration and remove them accordingly if they are a toxic element. I should learn a bit more from other SW communities though, and see how they handle inter-faction interaction, like SW:AoA.
Myself. I wanted a community where people are working together, to experience fun stuff. Compete ICly but friends OOCly. Options for everyone, combat doesn't have to be everything, good decision making and skill checks should just be as meaningful. A place for people to live their SW CW vibes.
That's the bet I'm putting on. I might fail, I mean you guys have more experience with SW communities than I do so I'm sure you've seen successes and failures. Myself, I feel that if I can't pull off a community with that kind of culture I listed above, then I'm OK with it dying off because I dunno about you guys but I find it plenty tiring to be constantly butting heads with other people, backstabbing, and all that just to "win" in a make believe game. It's emotionally exhausting for me, and not worth keeping afloat if this is the reality of things.
Until then though, I'm going to keep on doing my best to set the community culture based on OOC collaboration and friendship for great SW fun times.
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@Obie said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
Myself, I feel that if I can't pull off a community with that kind of culture I listed above, then I'm OK with it dying off because I dunno about you guys but I find it plenty tiring to be constantly butting heads with other people, backstabbing, and all that just to "win" in a make believe game. It's emotionally exhausting for me, and not worth keeping afloat if this is the reality of things.
Yeah, a lot of us are. But its because we keep running into that kind of person in games. It would be great to have a game where everyone is on board with the vision you have for your game.
Maybe at the beginning where you have to +proceed and all that other stuff, have a step where people agree to that (yes, I know not a lot of people read that stuff) and then again at the end of chargen just before you go IC repeat it just for good measure. It might make people think about it and know that you take it seriously and everyone else is expected to as well.
If nothing else, people can't use the excuse that they didn't know with very much weight.
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@Warma-Sheen said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
@Obie said in Star Wars Republic d20 SAGA - (Prequel Era):
Myself, I feel that if I can't pull off a community with that kind of culture I listed above, then I'm OK with it dying off because I dunno about you guys but I find it plenty tiring to be constantly butting heads with other people, backstabbing, and all that just to "win" in a make believe game. It's emotionally exhausting for me, and not worth keeping afloat if this is the reality of things.
Yeah, a lot of us are. But its because we keep running into that kind of person in games. It would be great to have a game where everyone is on board with the vision you have for your game.
Maybe at the beginning where you have to +proceed and all that other stuff, have a step where people agree to that (yes, I know not a lot of people read that stuff) and then again at the end of chargen just before you go IC repeat it just for good measure. It might make people think about it and know that you take it seriously and everyone else is expected to as well.
If nothing else, people can't use the excuse that they didn't know with very much weight.
That's a good idea, Warma. I think I'll that'll serve as a great reminder. If you've been through the chargen area, you'll notice that there's several areas that's been highlighted and underlined in coloured texts because I have run into people who just ignored everything.
Haha, but it's just small pains, it's a very human thing. I'll start learning to replicate the +proceed agreement trigger. Thanks for that!
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Hey there! I played Tolssk! I bask in your hate. Not because I deserve it, but because the "good guys" on DOD were always whining bullies, especially you, oh-player-of-Hale. Hale, incidentally, is a fine character, not weak at all. You think that Hale sucks because you don't know how to play a jedi. It's hard to RP a serene jedi when your player is gibbering with fear on a no-consequence game.
3CH0 there also had great build, btw. If it wasn't for Obie's silly HRs you guys probably would have stomped me. Your attitude clearly needs some adjustment, however.
So, a little history lesson: guess what? We, your ruthless villains, were always afraid, too. There were lots more of you than there were of us. Difference: we overcame it and did things, while you sulked. When the good guys ganged up on us, we got back up, dusted ourselves off, bought jetpacks, and tried again. Ironic to let fear control you on a star wars game, where you're all playing jedi and we're playing evil jerks, but there you have it.
As for Obie: I spent three days telling you why Tolssk was unplayable, now you see it for yourself and silent ban me! Congratulations! On the good side, your HRs are mostly well written. Your plot was good! Unfortunately, going around silent-banning people (more precisely: tolssk was @newpassed overnight) demonstrates you are inadequate as a staffer. If this game is your first product to manage, you've failed before launch. You should think carefully if you're going into the right field. What will you do when your stakeholders insist on things you disagree with? Also, your invitation to our tabletop game is revoked, we don't let mean, passive-aggressive bullies into our games. I'd page you on the mush to tell you, but, well, see above for the silent ban.
My take on the game: this is made by and for the bad parts of the jedi sphere from Generations of Darkness and Dawn of Defiance. They will have their own sandbox to play in. Nothing bad will ever happen to anyone unless they specifically request it, and, therefore, nothing much will ever happen. There will be plots, some of them decent, but everything will be back to normal after each half-hour episode. There will be a two-week burst of excitement, and then a two month wind-down as Obie struggles with running 100% of the events by himself, until it is Obie and three jedi friends and their alts, as Obie will have quietly banned anyone who ever wanted to do anything interesting (they "wanted to win too much" - trust me, Obie, the good guys wanted to win just as badly as I did. They just also think they should get a gold star for showing up) and everyone else gets bored and leaves.
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@Malkleth You are all over the map, dude. Are the HRs silly? Or are they mostly well written? If you knew your character was unplayable, then why did you play him? More specifically, why did you play him the way you did?
That pretty much sums you up as a player, right there.
How you play is completely is completely up to you. If you think it is totally acceptable to cause problems on the game because no one stops you from doing it, then it is no wonder you're no longer welcome on the game. Been there, grew up from that.
Additionally, your character is not dependent on your character build. Your idea of what the game is supposed to be is so basic. This is not a tabletop.
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@Warma-Sheen Some of the HR's (new talents) are super well written, and some of them are pretty bad and go counter to the intended vision of the game. (For example, restrictions on combat powers that don't deal direct damage, when one of the visions of the game is to give more non-damage options.). Essentially, there are a class of powers which do damage (or more usually, condition track damage) based on will-saves, and on the game players get a +5 to will saves. I believe one of the points made was that if not for that +5, he'd have lost the fight in question. To clarify, most of the new talents are pretty well written though.
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That post does not sound like a person talking about a roleplaying game pretendy fun time activity. You should read this:
https://wadewilson.livejournal.com/11285.html
(particularly P1)
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@Malkleth You were always just as childish and whiny as the worst on the game. If things weren't going your way you'd give a shitty one or two sentence pose and would put no effort into anything except when you were "winning" and things were going your way. You are no different 5 years later on and the game is better for not having you on it.
Edit added: @secretfire He wouldn't have lost the fight in question. Not by a long shot. He'd have just lost one roll in it. He wasn't anywhere close to losing that fight at any point in the scene.
