Paying for a MU*?
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@tinuviel said in Paying for a MU*?:
and then there's going to be people that try to get the law involved because real financial exchange has happened and that always leads to lawyers eventually.
This.
Racism isn't Tinkerbell. It doesn't need you to believe in it for it to exist.
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@derp said in Paying for a MU*?:
@tinuviel said in Paying for a MU*?:
and then there's going to be people that try to get the law involved because real financial exchange has happened and that always leads to lawyers eventually.
This.
And lawyers ruin everything.
He/Him
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@tinuviel said in Paying for a MU*?:
@derp said in Paying for a MU*?:
@tinuviel said in Paying for a MU*?:
and then there's going to be people that try to get the law involved because real financial exchange has happened and that always leads to lawyers eventually.
This.
And lawyers ruin everything.
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I charge $350 an hour and still get treated like shit sometimes.
That’s why I charge $350 per hour; I can cut these assholes lose.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@ganymede I feel guilty about charging what I charge, I can never raise my prices, lol.
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When money enters the equation everything changes.
- Open source code bases usually remain so on the basis that they aren't monetized. If you charge for a game using a code base you didn't write you could be in an actionable position. It would be wrong to monetize an FS3 game without @faraday OK'ing it or getting a cut, but even if fara didn't care that doesn't mean other coders wont.
- If your content isn't original (d&d, star wars, world of darkness) and you're monetizing it, you're actionable
- Use PB's? Because every player and npc PB is now a monetized use of that person's image without their consent.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. MU is a text based amateur quasi-fan fiction writing hobby with slight gaming elements with less than 200 identifiably active players. The amount of money required to monetize a game isn't worth the amount that would be earned, and the likelihood that some jilted player will take things to extreme lengths for a refund (small claims?) is high.
That game VaultGirl or whoever was running where they were taking $$$ donations for extra xp, gear, etc was using Fallout's IP. They're lucky they didn't get a tap from a lawyer because when the MU doesn't exchange money it's a cease and desist, but when money is traded the question of how much of that the IP holder is entitled to comes into play.
Delete the Hog Pit. It'll be fun.
I really don't understand He-Man -
Everything @ghost points out is spot on.
For the record, the license agreements for both FS3 and Ares come with express prohibitions against commercial purposes. Tip jar to cover hosting fees is not what I'd consider "commercial" though - basically it just means don't try to make money off my work.
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I'd welcome anyone to try to make a living by running a MUSH. If they can do that, then anything is possible!
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@faraday Agreed on the tip jar, but I feel an entry fee at the door is the line. If access is locked behind a paywall, even if it's called a tip jar, it's arguable in court.
I'd like to add...
MU has been using unauthorized source materials for decades. I heard once a Matrix MU got a c&d from WB, and know that Blood of Dragons dbags tried to get GRRM to shut down any GoT MU that wasn't theirs. Simply put, the MU community has been lucky to not draw the Eye of Mordor over the years in terms of unauthorized use.
- Many WoD games have built into the code proprietary systems and information. Same goes for Shadowrun, Star Wars, and other licensed game systems that either have the information within the books baked into the code or offered on the websites.
- A lot of artwork, images, and other copyrights/trademarks are in use in game wikis, including use of actor's images without their (or the photographer's) consent.
I'm of the opinion that the only reason the MU community hasn't seen lawyers kicking in doors and shutting down games is because the community's saving grace has been that there is no money being exchanged. In fact, there are risks the IP holders take by not acting when their IPs are monetized without authorization. Currently, the cost of SEEKING damages probably outweighs the rewards, but if word gets around that money is changing hands you'll see a lot more c&d, especially for WoD products who are very aware of the MU community.
Delete the Hog Pit. It'll be fun.
I really don't understand He-Man -
@ghost said in Paying for a MU*?:
@faraday Agreed on the tip jar, but I feel an entry fee at the door is the line. If access is locked behind a paywall, even if it's called a tip jar, it's arguable in court.
Oh, I was just speaking for myself. I'm not going after anyone for having a tip jar on their Ares/FS3 game to cover hosting fees. Paying for perks or paying to play, though? That's clear-cut commercial use which is against the terms of service.
Courts and other copyright holders will draw their own lines in the sand.
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@ghost I am pretty sure the BoD people never tried to get GRRM to do anything, they just imply that his approval of their MU means he disapproves of all others.
Anne McCaffery C&Ding at Pern MUSHes was a thing once. Neil Gaiman responded to a 'Sandman' game by playing it.
ETA: As I understand it, McCaffery's trouble was that she thought that the existence of a free online Pern computer game would devalue the IP license for a Pern video game. When she figured out that MUSHes and video games are not much alike she stopped but became precious about people not RPing in her favourite Pern locations, which was her prerogative I suppose.
"... you'll find the story doesn’t end how you think, and the most important characters aren’t who you expect.” - Penny 40 to Derek, The Magicians S04E07 ‘The Side Effect’
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@il-volpe said in Paying for a MU*?:
ETA: As I understand it, McCaffery's trouble was that she thought that the existence of a free online Pern computer game would devalue the IP license for a Pern video game. When she figured out that MUSHes and video games are not much alike she stopped but became precious about people not RPing in her favourite Pern locations, which was her prerogative I suppose.
Kinda.
The "preciousness" had something to do with plans to use Benden and Ruatha as locations in the game.
I never heard of any confirmed reports of anyone actually getting a C&D from McCaffrey other than Dee Dreslough, who was making tons of (absolutely gorgeous) fan-art, including commissioned work for people. MUSHes took some heat for posting logs that were perceived as fan-fic, and supposedly McCaffrey sent letters to people to take those down. But that may be apocryphal, as it was always "a friend of mine got one."
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At this point, I kind of feel like I should be paid to play someone else's MU*.
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@kestrel said in Paying for a MU*?:
At this point, I kind of feel like I should be paid to play someone else's MU*.
My kneejerk reaction there was wow, that's arrogant.
Then I realised that I have been running my own game for three months now for exactly that reason.
So, uh, yeah.
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@l-b-heuschkel I'm in the same boat.
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@kestrel said in Paying for a MU*?:
At this point, I kind of feel like I should be paid to play someone else's MU*.
That's the spirit.
You know, given that most MUs rely on higher numbers of people/bits logged in to encourage people to try the game, at the very least even the most unwanted player on those games should have some sort of sign-spinner salary.
