@Jennkryst said:
Randomly, if MUSHes and MUXes are the same, then why doesn't combat on... any mush ever, work like on BTMux?
Because the people who created the Mush-based Battletech combat system poured over it, in waves, with love.
@Jennkryst said:
Randomly, if MUSHes and MUXes are the same, then why doesn't combat on... any mush ever, work like on BTMux?
From a user standpoint, they are similar. From a code standpoint, there are differences. Also, we're not all playing Battletech.
@Jeshin
World of Darkness is (generally) fun. There are lots of options, and it's a system that many people are familiar with. It's easy to adjust to what you want and, like many games, has a default setting that you build upon. So one WoD MU* may not look much like the next one (and some may look immediately like their neighbors, depending on what they were built to do).
Plus it's one that tons of code is floating around in the internet, so it's easy to get an idea, get code and go to town.
If you're familiar with DIKU from MUDs and how it's basically one of the parent codebases of the majority of games under the MUD banner. Would you say that the WoD codebase is similar in nature as it appears to be the most widely used and modified base for MUSHes?
@Jeshin
My familiarity with any MUD variant is long since gone, but...
I would say no, though, because I know just as many MU*s out there that use other self-coded systems, or other system derivatives, or systemless methodology. I don't see many (if any) that are 'WoD, but modified to do some other genre'. Most things that use WoD, are WoD, and many other things (like the Transformers MUSH glut, or the M3/SRT/etc. circle of games) use their own custom sysems.
I think it's just the simplest to get access to (but most MUD bases that are out there are like that, ROM and DIKU and others, right?), and be able to simply plug-and-play.
Huh, that's pretty interesting. So basically a lot of MUSHes are running their own "codebase" in a sense.
@Jeshin
You could look at it like that, as, outside of some corner-cases of pre-packaged starting databases (which are by and large hugely outdated/unusable), MU* is roughly the same across all the codebases (some functions may exist or not exist here or there).
Maybe it would help to point out that, with MUSH and all of the various flavors of codebase therein, there is a very distinct difference between what we refer to as:
Hardcode - this is the server codebase, the guts of the system, the parser and the database. This is what you get out of the box when you install a new game and start it up. There is one player object (GOD or #1) and one room. That's it. You get the help files and you're set to start building your little reality. This is what we refer to as 'under the hood', and there are generally three MUSH flavors: Penn, Rhost and MUX. All are designed differently, but once you are 'inside' a running game, they are about 90% similar. A person who knows Penn can operate on a MUX and vice versa, and just have to learn a few differences in commands. Coding (see below) is different from the standpoint of parameters and slight differences in behavior/output, but in general, a coder who knows MUX or Penn can code in Rhost, and vice versa.
Softcode- this is the part of building your little reality. If you have an RPG in mind, then you're going to need code to help players set their characters up. This is usually called CharGen (Character Generation). Here is where you build commands and rooms and help files that guide a player through putting together characters according to your game's rules. Next, you usually have code to support checking each other out. +FINGER is a very common example of this. On top of that, you get +WHO (which is slightly different than the stock WHO command), +WHERE and from here, a smattering of different commands that are designed to help players find other players for play.
Throw in here whatever your game needs. Want a command to allow players to summon others to their location? Very common. How about commands to alter your stats when you go from one werewolf form to another? Done. How about draining blood if you are a vampire? We have that in our games, too. Some games allow for invisibility, complete with snooping. Some games have commands for combat automation. Almost all games have health adjustment code that is run by the players themselves, staff or is automated in some fashion. Healing code? It's out there in MUSHes, too. Crafting on various levels? Yep, seen it, built em.
So understand that when you encounter a MUSH, you can almost always consider anything under 'help' as 'hardcoded'. Anything under '+help' is usually a softcoded system that someone has built in-game. It is stored on objects in a global Master Room so that those commands can be executed from anywhere on the game.
In general, the hardcode of MUSHes is rarely altered, hacked or touched, except in very fringe and custom cases. MUSHes differentiate themselves by softcode, by and large.
So basically a lot of MUSHes are running their own "codebase" in a sense.
(Probably you could just read what @Rook wrote several times to greater benefit, but here's my bit anyway.)
No, not really. I think part of why some people are becoming frustrated with what you are saying is because it is hard to communicate past your misconceptions.
TinyMUD derivatives like MUSH and MUX (and I think MUCK and MOO as well, although I don't really know how much game-specific content the various MOO Cores) are both content-free and content agnostic when you start them up. Their codebase is nothing more than the collection of mechanisms that enable them to start up, have characters, and have rooms, and allow connections. So, saying that "a lot of MUSHes are running their own 'codebase' in a sense" is really just a misapprehension of what's happening.
Likewise, MUSH is not a genre. A game's genre is concerned with elements like setting, whether conflict is primarily PvP or PvE, and so on. MUSH (from my non=coder's perspective) is more like machine code than it is like an operating system or even an application. Looking at it another way, mystery stories are a genre. Those stories can be created as films, television programs, books, and plays. To think, however, that books are intrinsically mystery-telling devices and to ask a fantasy author, "What kind of mysteries do you write?" just produces confusion and in the end doesn't really tell you much about stories, writing or books.
TL;DR--MU are a specific variant of a medium (online text-based) of roleplaying.
Aha, yeah I'm starting to get that vibe.
By "codebase" I am of referring to game system. So 7th sea and nWoD are both used on separate MUSHes but if they are using a different underlying RPG (to me) that would normally indicate 2 different "code bases" because they are supporting different activities and different settings. Thank you though for taking the time to lay it out for me. Just the variance in perspective is helpful.
Game System != Codebase.
Codebase = [ PennMUSH | MUX* | RhostMUSH | MUCK | MOO | *MUD ]
Game System = [ WoD | nWoD | D20 | FATE | Amber | HERO | .... ]
An example: There are nWoD MUXes, PennMUSHes and RhostMUSHes (I think). To say that they are all the same codebase would be wrong. They are different codebases, but the same Game System.
Yup you nailed the variance in how I was perceiving the issue.
Plus you can have the same setting (such as, for instance, the Anita Blake universe) that has no RPG system itself so whomever makes the game will choose which system to run. Some build their own, some use FATE, some could use Unisystem. Theoretically, someone could decide to make a WoD game and use the HERO System mechanics (though I've never seen it).
@Jennkryst said:
Randomly, if MUSHes and MUXes are the same, then why doesn't combat on... any mush ever, work like on BTMux?
@Jeshin said:
Are you referring too http://battletechmux.com/index.php/Site_Frontier:Main_Page ???
That one is a fork of TinyMUX that changes some things; haven't looked in detail at what, but has something to do with how big robots do fighty things at each other. If you're talking about MU family trees, yes; it should be on their as a fifth mush type, but I don't think it's used outside of that game.
http://musoapbox.net/topic/342/a-novel-game/48?page=1
Didn't want to clutter up their thread with a game/book question. I enjoy steampunk as a setting and when Sunny linked me to a steampunk RPG that she was using to develop Smoke (I believe). It got me thinking.
Is there currently an existing steampunk setting MUSH/Game the community knows about?
Is there a steampunk themed book that anyone can recommend?
I know of one other Steampunk game that is in development, but it's far more true to the genre than Smoke will be. Smoke is more 'Steampunk and...' than anything else; it's one of a couple of descriptors of the setting. I can't in good conscience bill it as a Steampunk game, because people would log in and see Eldren and Dwarves and go 'uuuuuuh wait...okay, wait, is this Steampunk D&D? wtf? huh?' (We're running Victoriana, which is "Steampunk and...")
I'm pretty sure the other game being developed is truer to the genre. Not my project though, so I can't discuss it in-depth.
If there are other games up and running within the genre, I'm unaware of them, and would definitely like to hear of them, too!
You mean Scottish people in traditional steampunk settings aren't supposed to represent dwarves? No but she's right, the RPG is Victoriana which I couldn't remember the name of.
@Jeshin said:
- Is there a steampunk themed book that anyone can recommend?
What I would call Steampunk is: The Mysterious Explorations of Jasper Morello.
Alt-world Victorian with advanced mechanics based upon gear-and-steam technology. The thing about "punk" in "Cyberpunk" is that there is no consideration for the individual, the soul, ultimately making Cyberpunk a story about human beings. Cyberpunk is, again in my world, a disposable-future version of Noir.
We can see elements of what become some versions of Steampunk in things like Space: 1889 and Fallout (more neoretro-60s than neoretro-1880s).
The Difference Engine is maybe as pure as I've read for Steampunk, as there is clockwork technology mimicking our own but in the Victorian era, but with all the rules the same as our world. A Hard Sci-Fi Steampunk, if you would.
Castle Falkenstin calls it "anacrotech", as in technology that belongs to a different time period but will be represented by magic and/or mad science.
So I over-answered. It's my way.
Okay, confused. I would have said that steampunk is a genre (of books, games) but am now curious what @Thenomain bases genres on? Is there a list?
Yes, serious question. Engineer brain. Shut up.
@Jennkryst said:
Randomly, if MUSHes and MUXes are the same, then why doesn't combat on... any mush ever, work like on BTMux?
Because the people who created the Mush-based Battletech combat system poured over it, in waves, with love.
