nWoD Games?
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What's out there? Which are decent? Specifically for Werewolf?
I know of:
Fallcoast
Reno
EldritchAre there others?
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I can't speak to the decency of Fallcoast's werewolf sphere, but I know that they have a new TL and they're looking at revitalizing the sphere.
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Important difference there I think is that I think Fallcoast is using 1.0, and the other two run 2.0. If it's a good sphere, I personally wouldn't care -- but the difference is important to some folks so it seemed worth noting.
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It makes a world of difference to Vampire, but that's about it.
“Real magic can never be made by offering someone else's liver. You must tear out your own, and not expect to get it back.”
― Peter S. Beagle, The Last Unicorn -
@The-Tree-of-Woe said:
It makes a world of difference to Vampire, but that's about it.
You don't think GMC's Werewolf is different than 1.0's? It's dramatically altered in both theme and mechanics.
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Yeah, I'd say that WW got more of a huge change than Vampire did (vamp feels more like a badly needed upgrade).
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Thematically Werewolf changed more than vampire. Mechanically Werewolf also changed more, but vampire do change a lot.
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nWerewolf 2e felt more like some author read it, sighed as they hung their head, and tried to salvage a game out of what was presented. Having read none of the presented nMage2e, I already get the feeling that the same will be happening here.
Contrast: nChangeling2e (dammit this is hard to type; can I call it GMC Changeling instead? CtL2 would be technically correct but I can't remember the 'the Splat' part of each game line) is starting to feel like someone who changed everything for the sake of changing everything.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos -
Yes, but those same arguments have always been posited by people. They said the exact same thing about NWoD over CWoD when NWoD was the shiny new thing. It's just different.
Racism isn't Tinkerbell. It doesn't need you to believe in it for it to exist.
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I will say that the massive gap between editions is probably a good thing. Masquerade had a 2nd Edition in a year and Revised within 7 or so. Requiem went from 04-13 with a single edition.
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@Derp said:
Yes, but those same arguments have always been posited by people. They said the exact same thing about NWoD over CWoD when NWoD was the shiny new thing. It's just different.
Yeah, but in that case people would be wrong.
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@Thenomain said:
nWerewolf 2e felt more like some author read it, sighed as they hung their head, and tried to salvage a game out of what was presented. Having read none of the presented nMage2e, I already get the feeling that the same will be happening here.
Contrast: nChangeling2e (dammit this is hard to type; can I call it GMC Changeling instead? CtL2 would be technically correct but I can't remember the 'the Splat' part of each game line) is starting to feel like someone who changed everything for the sake of changing everything.
This really just seems entirely subjective. You like 1e Changeling and didn't really like 1e Werewolf or Mage, so the changes to latter seem like a salvaging something that had promise but that didn't satisfy you, while the former feels like a radical change you can't abide.
It's the same thing, it's just that the latter challenges your enjoyment of the previous edition and what the changes mean for it with regards to what you expect.
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In an attempt to answer @TNP's original question, there are at least 2 games opening in January of 2016.
I'm a rodeo clown.
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@Coin
I liked both oChangeling and nChangeling, so I don't think that this summary is correct. It might be correct for some, but I am willing to rate a game on its own merits and not solely when compared to something else.Let's take one of the more dramatically changed games between oWoD and nWoD: Werewolf. We've gone from hippy-dippy stereotypes fighting a losing battle against the endless waves of an uber-spirit god, to more alien predators who are vastly outnumbered trying to fight both a battle of control against spirits and a more literal battle against their estranged cousins.
Both are good and horrible games on their own merits. Comparing the two would probably end in heartache, headache, or both. However, once you get past the ephemera of expressed theme, the newer game is a re-imagining of the older one: Philosophical groups of shape-shifters who are in a bad spot band together trying to protect the planet against spirits and corrupt relatives. Removing the Triumvirate is the only truly massive change. Push the underlying game of oWerewolf through the lens of nWoD and you get nWerewolf.
Okay, can the same be done for Changeling? Yes, only the massive change is that they flipped the reality/fantasy aspect. This makes the characters humans with faerie elements instead of the other way around. It was a necessary alteration to fit the game within the nWoD setting. There are no longer many layers of what nWoD calls "Twilight"; there is just one. No more near umbra/far umbra/blah/blah/blah.
And so forth.
nVampire2 is a refinement of nVampire. nWerewolf2 is a refinement of etc. nMage2 is a re-writing, but it isn't that far off what they had in nMage, so a more dramatic refinement. The essential feeling I get from nChangeling2 is that it is not a refinement, and therefore the project lead is doing his own thing with little consideration to the material. Will this be true? Possibly. Throwing things around like "well that's just your opinion" is just silly; my opinion didn't come out of nowhere.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos -
@Thenomain said:
@Coin
I liked both oChangeling and nChangeling, so I don't think that this summary is correct. It might be correct for some, but I am willing to rate a game on its own merits and not solely when compared to something else.Let's take one of the more dramatically changed games between oWoD and nWoD: Werewolf. We've gone from hippy-dippy stereotypes fighting a losing battle against the endless waves of an uber-spirit god, to more alien predators who are vastly outnumbered trying to fight both a battle of control against spirits and a more literal battle against their estranged cousins.
Both are good and horrible games on their own merits. Comparing the two would probably end in heartache, headache, or both. However, once you get past the ephemera of expressed theme, the newer game is a re-imagining of the older one: Philosophical groups of shape-shifters who are in a bad spot band together trying to protect the planet against spirits and corrupt relatives. Removing the Triumvirate is the only truly massive change. Push the underlying game of oWerewolf through the lens of nWoD and you get nWerewolf.
Okay, can the same be done for Changeling? Yes, only the massive change is that they flipped the reality/fantasy aspect. This makes the characters humans with faerie elements instead of the other way around. It was a necessary alteration to fit the game within the nWoD setting. There are no longer many layers of what nWoD calls "Twilight"; there is just one. No more near umbra/far umbra/blah/blah/blah.
And so forth.
I wasn't talking about oWoD.
nVampire2 is a refinement of nVampire. nWerewolf2 is a refinement of etc. nMage2 is a re-writing, but it isn't that far off what they had in nMage, so a more dramatic refinement. The essential feeling I get from nChangeling2 is that it is not a refinement, and therefore the project lead is doing his own thing with little consideration to the material. Will this be true? Possibly. Throwing things around like "well that's just your opinion" is just silly; my opinion didn't come out of nowhere.
I actually don't agree that the changes to Changeling that we've seen (which aren't many) are that far off from the first edition, especially compared to the differences in Vampire and Werewolf. This only highlights the subjectivity of the issue.
I don't know if you took my saying it was subjective as a negative; it's not. But it does imply that there is no concrete absolute regarding whether or not Changeling "changes too much" compared to Werewolf or Vampire.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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Most games change routinely. They are not trying to achieve a perfection to then hold onto for decades. Each new product is a new chance for a purchase. Players moving onto the new theme, the new setting, the new focus of mechanics, is a trend that supports new sales.
Took me a while to realize that motivates a lot of development.
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And also they aren't really meant for us (as in, the MU* crowd, people who are interested in running consistent and often multi-sphere campaigns which last for years and take massive amounts of efforts - in terms of coding, building a grid, setting up a wiki, etc) to get going.
So if there are interpretations of Changeling or whatever which push different buttons, have a different range on the faerie elements versus the traumatized victims angle or whatever else... players are supposed to just pick the version which better fits their vision.
I mean for their intended purpose you can switch from 1.0 to GMC/2.0 in a few minutes as long as someone at the table knows the rules. This is a non-issue for the products, we're the ones who're repurposing them a bit.
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@tragedyjones said:
In an attempt to answer @TNP's original question, there are at least 2 games opening in January of 2016.
Which games are those?
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@Coin said:
I wasn't talking about oWoD.
Well Changeling for nWoD2 isn't out yet, so I can't tell you whether or not I like it.
You said 1e. My brain immediately goes to the original WoD game lines when people mention 1e. Regardless, I will be treating CtL2 the same way I've treated VtW2 and WtX2; as someone who can recognize a game for what it is.
On a personal standpoint, I think what they did to Fairest is without consideration to a game in a world with the word "Darkness" in the title. I hope they clarify their intent, since their ability to communicate intent is going to tell us how to play. If they can't communicate how to play a nontrivial part of the game, then they have failed.
This has never been about old Fairest vs. new Fairest.
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@Rucket said:
@tragedyjones said:
In an attempt to answer @TNP's original question, there are at least 2 games opening in January of 2016.
Which games are those?
One is entitled Dust to Dust, being created by out very own @Sunny. The other is, at least for now, apparently invite only so I won't say much, other than I won't be playing there for personal preference.
