Coming in 2016 - Bump in the Night

[Kanye Qwest]

@Roz said:

@Thenomain said:

I fixed 'request <title>=<content>' from submitting jobs titled 'uest <title>'. I will miss that little bug.

I am transparently downvoting you because obviously that was a feature, not a bug.

In more general news, I successfully made it through my first WoD chargen here and everyone is very nice.

WoD chargen is the worst. I just went through it awhile ago, got all excited about my character (BLATANTLY STOLEN) concept, and then I get in game and no one roleplays.

It's really turned me off to most sandbox games, and even though I got all excited about BITN's concept I have to remind myself that 100% of my experience with WoD games so far has been a simple flowchart.

deal with obnoxious charcreation/app process
2.
Wait for char to be approved. Hang out in the OOC room with the intention of making friends to play with despite not really being much for OOC chatting with strangers.
3.
Begin to hate the OOC room, myself, and everyone else in it.
4.
Get approved! Get 1 scene with whoever talked me into trying game.
5.
Realize the bulk of the game just hangs out in that OOC room waiting for something to happen to go IC for. Despair of ever running into cool random RP (which is the only way I make friends in RP communities - still not much for ooc chatting)
6.
Stop logging in. REPEAT WITH NEW GAME.

[Arkandel]

@Kanye-Qwest said:

It's really turned me off to most sandbox games, and even though I got all excited about BITN's concept I have to remind myself that 100% of my experience with WoD games so far has been a simple flowchart.

Let's take a look at it.

deal with obnoxious charcreation/app process

What do you find particularly obnoxious about it? Like,what's the worst part about WoD CGen as opposed to other systems' (assuming there is an approval process of course for them, CGen-less MU* don't count).

Wait for char to be approved. Hang out in the OOC room with the intention of making friends to play with despite not really being much for OOC chatting with strangers.

Yeah, OOC room is death for the soul. I always go park in the quiet room (or whatever they have) until I can be unleashed.

Begin to hate the OOC room, myself, and everyone else in it.

No one can blame you.

Get approved! Get 1 scene with whoever talked me into trying game.

Awesome start.

Realize the bulk of the game just hangs out in that OOC room waiting for something to happen to go IC for. Despair of ever running into cool random RP (which is the only way I make friends in RP communities - still not much for ooc chatting)

But why not be the change you want in the world? Make something happen, get a story going. Run a PrP if need be, get your character in some trouble then ask your friends (or find some) for help, get in a faction and do something unexpected, start a group (coterie/cabal/pack/etc) if you can't find one. You know? Be proactive, make some ripples and pull others into that madness.

Stop logging in. REPEAT WITH NEW GAME.

Break the circle!

[Derp]

@Kanye-Qwest said:

@Roz said:

@Thenomain said:

I fixed 'request <title>=<content>' from submitting jobs titled 'uest <title>'. I will miss that little bug.

I am transparently downvoting you because obviously that was a feature, not a bug.

In more general news, I successfully made it through my first WoD chargen here and everyone is very nice.

WoD chargen is the worst. I just went through it awhile ago, got all excited about my character (BLATANTLY STOLEN) concept, and then I get in game and no one roleplays.

It's really turned me off to most sandbox games, and even though I got all excited about BITN's concept I have to remind myself that 100% of my experience with WoD games so far has been a simple flowchart.

deal with obnoxious charcreation/app process
2.
Wait for char to be approved. Hang out in the OOC room with the intention of making friends to play with despite not really being much for OOC chatting with strangers.
3.
Begin to hate the OOC room, myself, and everyone else in it.
4.
Get approved! Get 1 scene with whoever talked me into trying game.
5.
Realize the bulk of the game just hangs out in that OOC room waiting for something to happen to go IC for. Despair of ever running into cool random RP (which is the only way I make friends in RP communities - still not much for ooc chatting)
6.
Stop logging in. REPEAT WITH NEW GAME.

So, this might be a dumb question, but have you considered, you know... asking people if they want to play? Because from your flowchart it sounds like a whole lot of passive, and not a lot of active. And active is really the key to finding stuff. Even with active, it can be hit or miss sometimes. But taking advantage of what opportunities are there and attempting to create your own opportunities is really the thing to do.

For example, if you want to do something fun? Just advertise that you will be doing <FUN THING> at <FUN PLACE> at <FUN TIME>, and see who bites. Even if it's not a full-on plot, you'd be surprised how many people show up for a paintball and bacon party in the wal-mart parking lot. Or whatever.

[ThatOneDude]

@Kanye-Qwest said:

@Roz said:

@Thenomain said:

I fixed 'request <title>=<content>' from submitting jobs titled 'uest <title>'. I will miss that little bug.

I am transparently downvoting you because obviously that was a feature, not a bug.

In more general news, I successfully made it through my first WoD chargen here and everyone is very nice.

WoD chargen is the worst. I just went through it awhile ago, got all excited about my character (BLATANTLY STOLEN) concept, and then I get in game and no one roleplays.

It's really turned me off to most sandbox games, and even though I got all excited about BITN's concept I have to remind myself that 100% of my experience with WoD games so far has been a simple flowchart.

deal with obnoxious charcreation/app process
2.
Wait for char to be approved. Hang out in the OOC room with the intention of making friends to play with despite not really being much for OOC chatting with strangers.
3.
Begin to hate the OOC room, myself, and everyone else in it.
4.
Get approved! Get 1 scene with whoever talked me into trying game.
5.
Realize the bulk of the game just hangs out in that OOC room waiting for something to happen to go IC for. Despair of ever running into cool random RP (which is the only way I make friends in RP communities - still not much for ooc chatting)
6.
Stop logging in. REPEAT WITH NEW GAME.

I feel you on this. Or I get busy with RL/Work and then look back and missed that chance to jump into a plot or whatever thing is getting going on the fly. Hit me up in the OOC and we'll do this thing! Just don't be like @Derp and try to hit on my PC right out the gate... Creeeeepy.

[Derp]

@ThatOneDude said:

Just don't be like @Derp and try to hit on my PC right out the gate... Creeeeepy.

I doubt this ever happened. I do remember telling you to quit your shit, both IC and OOC, since you and your partner were two of the most fucking obnoxious Arrows ever to come into my general vicinity. That was fun. But then again, all of your characters are generally obnoxious assholes, so why does that surprise me?

[Kanye Qwest]

@Arkandel said:

@Kanye-Qwest said:

It's really turned me off to most sandbox games, and even though I got all excited about BITN's concept I have to remind myself that 100% of my experience with WoD games so far has been a simple flowchart.

Let's take a look at it.

deal with obnoxious charcreation/app process

What do you find particularly obnoxious about it? Like,what's the worst part about WoD CGen as opposed to other systems' (assuming there is an approval process of course for them, CGen-less MU* don't count).

But why not be the change you want in the world? Make something happen, get a story going. Run a PrP if need be, get your character in some trouble then ask your friends (or find some) for help, get in a faction and do something unexpected, start a group (coterie/cabal/pack/etc) if you can't find one. You know? Be proactive, make some ripples and pull others into that madness.

These things are tied together. The character creation for me is obnoxious because not only have I never played WoD tabletop, I've never really played ANY tabletop outside a couple cool one-offs my friends have done on game nights. I don't have a good knowledge of the mechanics (ok I have NO knowledge of the mechanics)

Which might make you ask why I'd want to play these games, and the answer is I love modern supernatural/horror settings.

@Derp said:

So, this might be a dumb question, but have you considered, you know... asking people if they want to play? Because from your flowchart it sounds like a whole lot of passive, and not a lot of active. And active is really the key to finding stuff.

Again, the real issue here is my lack of familiarity with the setting. I have no trouble being active to find RP (or, have never had an issue with this before) but my preferred style is the kind that happens organically - that just never seems to happen without an IC grid people want to hang out on more than the OOC rooms. Then, when I have a good feel for characters in my newly-known group, I can come up with a plot that helps advance them/appeals to their chars or personalities. That's the storytelling I like.

I hated, on the last game I staffed for, that we were expected to run bullshit scenes anyone and everyone could participate in. Generic fires. Rat swarms. Whatever. HATE.

@ThatOneDude said:

I feel you on this. Or I get busy with RL/Work and then look back and missed that chance to jump into a plot or whatever thing is getting going on the fly. Hit me up in the OOC and we'll do this thing! Just don't be like @Derp and try to hit on my PC right out the gate... Creeeeepy.

I only participate in sexytime rp or rp deep interpersonal relationships. I have striking looks 2 and you are obviously already in love with my PC.

[ThatOneDude]

@Derp said:

@ThatOneDude said:

Just don't be like @Derp and try to hit on my PC right out the gate... Creeeeepy.

I doubt this ever happened. I do remember telling you to quit your shit, both IC and OOC, since you and your partner were two of the most fucking obnoxious Arrows ever to come into my general vicinity. That was fun. But then again, all of your characters are generally obnoxious assholes, so why does that surprise me?

Ahhhh, I just missed you

[ThatOneDude]

@Kanye-Qwest said:

@Arkandel said:

@Kanye-Qwest said:

It's really turned me off to most sandbox games, and even though I got all excited about BITN's concept I have to remind myself that 100% of my experience with WoD games so far has been a simple flowchart.

Let's take a look at it.

deal with obnoxious charcreation/app process

What do you find particularly obnoxious about it? Like,what's the worst part about WoD CGen as opposed to other systems' (assuming there is an approval process of course for them, CGen-less MU* don't count).

But why not be the change you want in the world? Make something happen, get a story going. Run a PrP if need be, get your character in some trouble then ask your friends (or find some) for help, get in a faction and do something unexpected, start a group (coterie/cabal/pack/etc) if you can't find one. You know? Be proactive, make some ripples and pull others into that madness.

These things are tied together. The character creation for me is obnoxious because not only have I never played WoD tabletop, I've never really played ANY tabletop outside a couple cool one-offs my friends have done on game nights. I don't have a good knowledge of the mechanics (ok I have NO knowledge of the mechanics)

Which might make you ask why I'd want to play these games, and the answer is I love modern supernatural/horror settings.

@Derp said:

So, this might be a dumb question, but have you considered, you know... asking people if they want to play? Because from your flowchart it sounds like a whole lot of passive, and not a lot of active. And active is really the key to finding stuff.

Again, the real issue here is my lack of familiarity with the setting. I have no trouble being active to find RP (or, have never had an issue with this before) but my preferred style is the kind that happens organically - that just never seems to happen without an IC grid people want to hang out on more than the OOC rooms. Then, when I have a good feel for characters in my newly-known group, I can come up with a plot that helps advance them/appeals to their chars or personalities. That's the storytelling I like.

I hated, on the last game I staffed for, that we were expected to run bullshit scenes anyone and everyone could participate in. Generic fires. Rat swarms. Whatever. HATE.

@ThatOneDude said:

I feel you on this. Or I get busy with RL/Work and then look back and missed that chance to jump into a plot or whatever thing is getting going on the fly. Hit me up in the OOC and we'll do this thing! Just don't be like @Derp and try to hit on my PC right out the gate... Creeeeepy.

I only participate in sexytime rp or rp deep interpersonal relationships. I have striking looks 2 and you are obviously already in love with my PC.

What this about sexytimes? >.>

[Derp]

@Kanye-Qwest said:

Again, the real issue here is my lack of familiarity with the setting. I have no trouble being active to find RP (or, have never had an issue with this before) but my preferred style is the kind that happens organically - that just never seems to happen without an IC grid people want to hang out on more than the OOC rooms. Then, when I have a good feel for characters in my newly-known group, I can come up with a plot that helps advance them/appeals to their chars or personalities. That's the storytelling I like.

Alright, so then that raises another question. What do you mean by 'organically'? Do you mean people just randomly wandering the grid? Because that only very rarely happens in WoD settings that I've seen. For one, the grids are far, far too large for people to just randomly wander about it. It's not a small village via DnD, for the most part. Usually, they are sprawling metropolises, or at least decent-sized towns. They have to be in order to hold so much supernatural stuff. So for the most part, people just kind of hang around where their characters would normally be, and try and find others in that area.

So, I mean, to me (and granted, my opinion is just that), it sounds like you might be looking for something that really isn't -there-, or even easy to support. WoD really does take a lot of OOC planning and communication to pull off. Nothing in the WoD really just -happens-. It all happens to further a plot, to advance a specific goal, etc, or happens to be a social thing in a specific 'hangout' location, though people bitch about that all the time, too.

So what are you looking for when you say 'organic'? Maybe we can help with ideas there?

[Arkandel]

@Kanye-Qwest said:

What do you find particularly obnoxious about it? Like,what's the worst part about WoD CGen as opposed to other systems' (assuming there is an approval process of course for them, CGen-less MU* don't count).

But why not be the change you want in the world? Make something happen, get a story going. Run a PrP if need be, get your character in some trouble then ask your friends (or find some) for help, get in a faction and do something unexpected, start a group (coterie/cabal/pack/etc) if you can't find one. You know? Be proactive, make some ripples and pull others into that madness.

These things are tied together. The character creation for me is obnoxious because not only have I never played WoD tabletop, I've never really played ANY tabletop outside a couple cool one-offs my friends have done on game nights. I don't have a good knowledge of the mechanics (ok I have NO knowledge of the mechanics)

Well, I can certainly see why you'd be frustrated by having to create characters using a system you're unfamiliar with, but there's no way around it. I've had the same experience say, rolling a character on a comic book MUSH a while ago... but I can't blame the game for it unless they make it unnecessarily complex or they don't give a hand with it etc. I mean... it's the system, there are some mechanics. Just learn enough about it to go through CGen and then fake it until you're familiar with more - it's what I do (when I'm not making @Coin answer endless questions instead of RTFM myself, that is).

Which might make you ask why I'd want to play these games, and the answer is I love modern supernatural/horror settings.

No, I get that.

Again, the real issue here is my lack of familiarity with the setting. I have no trouble being active to find RP (or, have never had an issue with this before) but my preferred style is the kind that happens organically - that just never seems to happen without an IC grid people want to hang out on more than the OOC rooms. Then, when I have a good feel for characters in my newly-known group, I can come up with a plot that helps advance them/appeals to their chars or personalities. That's the storytelling I like.

Organically finding RP in my experience works only when the local MU* culture is focused on making a couple of hangouts popular enough for people to keep going there 'in case someone is around'. This isn't a universal solution either - it can end up making those few rooms so spammy people avoid them, for example. Otherwise it's very difficult to just walk around until you find a room someone is already at (unless you're willing to be that person) - but if you're willing to do that, why not use tools commonly found in many MU* these days by turning on your seek-RP flag or the such?

In other words, if you can go to a room and have the game code advertise the fact you're available and looking for scenes, does that help? Because if you do it enough maybe other people will do the same... and it might not be completely organic, but it seems close enough to me.

[Ganymede]

@Kanye-Qwest said:

Again, the real issue here is my lack of familiarity with the setting. I have no trouble being active to find RP (or, have never had an issue with this before) but my preferred style is the kind that happens organically - that just never seems to happen without an IC grid people want to hang out on more than the OOC rooms. Then, when I have a good feel for characters in my newly-known group, I can come up with a plot that helps advance them/appeals to their chars or personalities. That's the storytelling I like.

This is my preference as well, so I tend to hang out on the Grid whenever I'm connected. I usually connect when I'm RP-okay, but I usually RP from work, and work sometimes invades.

I play James, so feel free to come by wherever I am or page me if you want to RP something.

[tragedyjones]

If I can help anyone with anything at all in regards to BITN, give me a holler.

I am the big 4 armed sun god.

[Coin]

@tragedyjones said:

If I can help anyone with anything at all in regards to BITN, give me a holler.

I am the big 4 armed sun god.

You know what they say about guys with four arms...

[Kanye Qwest]

@Arkandel said:

Well, I can certainly see why you'd be frustrated by having to create characters using a system you're unfamiliar with, but there's no way around it. I've had the same experience say, rolling a character on a comic book MUSH a while ago... but I can't blame the game for it unless they make it unnecessarily complex or they don't give a hand with it etc.

I'm not trying to place blame on any game, not at all! I am just kvetching, fully aware that what is keeping me out of the WoD setting/games is all on me. I'm lazy, and I've never been a min/maxer, especially in RP. I care about stats/skills/perks insofar as A. they back up my character concept or B. they give me ideas for fun things to do IC. So now I feel bad because you guys are being helpful and I'm just bitching.

I am not holding any games or staffers/designers responsible for the way I feel when I'm contemplating the 3 core book PDFs I have to consult to spend my dots. I do like the use of that word, so 10 points for WoD. DOTS.

In other words, if you can go to a room and have the game code advertise the fact you're available and looking for scenes, does that help? Because if you do it enough maybe other people will do the same... and it might not be completely organic, but it seems close enough to me.

I admit that I haven't given this a fair try, and I'm sure it would work to a degree. It usually does. It's just, in my limited experience, there doesn't seem (from the outside) to be a lot going on in these games, so it sort of..fails to dig its hooks in?

@Ganymede said:

I play James, so feel free to come by wherever I am or page me if you want to RP something.

Thank you!

@Derp said:

So, I mean, to me (and granted, my opinion is just that), it sounds like you might be looking for something that really isn't -there-, or even easy to support.

This is the feeling I'm getting, too.

[tragedyjones]

@Coin They can dual dual wield?

[Misadventure]

Sounds like there is a problem with the User.

Many, many others go through a long cgen, hang out in the OOC room until they hate existence, then discover there is no random RP to join, and they stay.

[Roz]

@Kanye-Qwest said:

@Arkandel said:

Well, I can certainly see why you'd be frustrated by having to create characters using a system you're unfamiliar with, but there's no way around it. I've had the same experience say, rolling a character on a comic book MUSH a while ago... but I can't blame the game for it unless they make it unnecessarily complex or they don't give a hand with it etc.

I'm not trying to place blame on any game, not at all! I am just kvetching, fully aware that what is keeping me out of the WoD setting/games is all on me. I'm lazy, and I've never been a min/maxer, especially in RP. I care about stats/skills/perks insofar as A. they back up my character concept or B. they give me ideas for fun things to do IC. So now I feel bad because you guys are being helpful and I'm just bitching.

It does seem a little odd to lodge complaints or frustrations you have with the genre in general on an ad thread for a specific game that I don't think you've tried out yet (from my read of your posts, I could be wrong!). It's pretty natural that people would assume you're expressing frustrations about that game in particular.

[Sammi]

@Arkandel said:

Organically finding RP in my experience works only when the local MU* culture is focused on making a couple of hangouts popular enough for people to keep going there 'in case someone is around'. This isn't a universal solution either - it can end up making those few rooms so spammy people avoid them, for example.

It's also not a one-size-fits-all solution in that some people (*hand raise*) simply can't do "wandering the city, who knows what will happen" as the basis for any sort of plausible narrative progression. Part of why I like MUSHing is that there's a wealth of information available about characters. It's easy to figure out who these people are and why they might plausibly be crossing paths before anything happens, and that's necessary in order to turn off my social anxiety.

[Arkandel]

@Sammi said:

It's also not a one-size-fits-all solution in that some people (*hand raise*) simply can't do "wandering the city, who knows what will happen" as the basis for any sort of plausible narrative progression. Part of why I like MUSHing is that there's a wealth of information available about characters. It's easy to figure out who these people are and why they might plausibly be crossing paths before anything happens, and that's necessary in order to turn off my social anxiety.

Weeeell, it can sort-of kind-of still work by strategic hangout creation. Say, an IC popular gallery or palace for nobles, an inn where live performers are sponsored to play at for the plebes, artists and patrons, a practice yard for martially inclined characters, etc.

But really, in this matter hybrid solutions work best... having several options given to people so they can mix and match. RP-seeking flags, hangouts, +event-based things getting people together, faction-specific meetings, the more time and effort a game puts into including its introverts the better it tends to do.

Having said there, there are always people who simply want everything spoon-fed and for whom nothing will be enough. You could basically page and personally invite them to every scene and they'll still find a reason to complain about. This needs to be said.

[Sammi]

Strategic hangout creation is great. When there's an establishment that is known throughout the sphere, it's easy for any character to just be there and run into heretofore unknown others. And that is usually my go-to for introductory RP between characters who haven't got much in common, but that's not what I would describe as "wandering the city" RP.

What causes problems for me is when I'm sitting on the grid (maybe I'm descing, or planning a location for something, or checking the layout for reference for something else) and somebody walks in and just starts. Or when I agree to a scene, not much has been decided, we land in an IC location, and they make some set where their character is just out and about, doing nothing of import. I have had panic attacks during my less-good days.

I'm also not in the habit of complaining about these things unless I feel compelled to provide a counterpoint for someone who bemoans the lack of spontaneous scenes.