Pay to Play MUSHing?

[Shayd]

Like I said: I know he can be a shitdick online, he's not a bad person in real life, he just has an online problem.

[Roz]

If you are a shitdick anywhere you are a shitdick in real life. Online is not a magical other world.

[ThatGuyThere]

I have to agree with Roz, you are who you are, online does not make you a different person it just removes filters.
For example I am argumentative and stubborn, I an not less argumentative and stubborn in RL when my boss tells me to do something I think is wrong but I go and do it without complaint. This does not make me unstubborn it just makes me smart enough to know when following my nature would be detrimental.

[Packrat]

For that matter Custodius' marriage did not last long or end on good terms and his (now ex) wife always came across as good people to me at least. Admittedly I only knew her via MUSHing and general online chat but still.

[deadculture]

I would say he's still an asshole, it's just that he knows it's best for his survival not to act like a dick IRL.

[Coin]

Guys, stop repeating what I said, I'm sure @Shayd gets it.

... never mind, he might be super dense. Carry on.

[Shayd]

If you guys don't get the idea that there's a difference between online games and real life, then I do not know what to tell you.

[Arkandel]

@Shayd said:

If you guys don't get the idea that there's a difference between online games and real life, then I do not know what to tell you.

And if you can't get that when the sum of your interactions with someone are online and they are typically unfortunate then it doesn't really matter to to them what you are like in real life, you will continue to run into a wall again and again around here.

[Shayd]

That I understand, or I wouldn't've apologized for it!

[Roz]

You know what going online is? It's sitting at your desk in real life and typing with your real life hands and having social interactions with other people. These interactions are not magically fake. You are as accountable for how you treat others in a digital space as how you treat them in a physical space. We live in a digital world, and the rules of asshole behavior don't magically change. All of the good and bad of "real life" happen online: people are harassed and abused, people make lifelong friendships, people meet their soulmates and get married.

If you want to say that your character's life is not real life, sure. That's totally true. But that's clearly not what you're saying.

[Arkandel]

@Roz Weeell, that's partially true. Not completely though.

I mean we can get into a debate about what is the most 'real' us, but I know people in real life who're considerate, very responsible family people and well behaved as individuals, but treat online like some kind of fake place where they can troll for the lols, or exploit bugs (although they are quite law-abiding outside of those interactions), and generally allow anonymity and the lack of accountability make them act in ways that would be getting them punched otherwise.

Is it because of the punching threat they're nice iRL? Or is it that they just don't take their online interactions seriously?

I can't pretend to have the answer. I do know that it doesn't matter - act like an asshat to me online and, since I will never meet you in flesh, I will treat you like an asshat. That's only reasonable.

[Warma Sheen]

I have to back up @shayd on this one. Saying someone is a "shitdick" online is not very specific. The reason why you categorize someone as such is sometimes important. People get called that or worse not because they are rude or insensitive or mean, but because they nitpick rules or "twink" a character a lot. Which can easily make someone intolerable on a game, but completely cool in real life.

And who someone is online can be very different than who they are in real life. A person might not change, and that's debatable. But how a person is perceived can be wildly different than who they really are. I probably often come across as cold or impersonal on games because I don't sit and chat or emote silly, goofy things to other people in the ooc room or make winky or kissy emoticons at people I don't know in real life. I log on, I look for rp and play and then I log off. And it may seem cold or cruel, but I'm not interested in purely online social interactions much. At least not to the extent many other people are. But does that make me, as a person cold or cruel? I don't think so. But others might disagree.

And I have to second @arkandel here. Don't tell me you guys have never heard of (and experienced) internet bravery. And I know there has to be plenty of you who have had one impression of a person online then went to a convention or a meetup and met that person in real life and had a completely different impression.

And I'm not saying @roz is wrong in the most recent post, I just think people are more complex than what they are being made out to be, especially in terms of being accountable for how you treat others in a digital space. Some people are exactly who they seem to be online. Others are not.

[Sunny]

Being an asshole on the internet and decent in the meat world means you're an asshole when nobody is looking, which means you're an asshole.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

I find the traits I have IRL are just magnified online, for better and worse. At least in terms of people I know well and chat with regularly. We all have aspects of ourselves we try to project in certain situations, both online and in the meat world, so I don't assume I 'know' people who I only talk with passingly online or chat with a couple times a week at work. But after enough exposure to someone, I think they are what they are.

[saosmash]

I dunno, I have a friend who is really nice, like sweetest, most generous guy, fun to hang with in real life but somehow on the internet he transposes into the most annoying man alive. Like, he's never a shitdick. It's like online he forgets everything there is to know about social interaction and reverts to the comparative safety of total inanity.

[Arkandel]

@Warma-Sheen It's also about playing games though. Something about them makes people go from "it's only a game" to "these people are only players, and thus part of the game so who cares". I can't quite explain it.

And it's not just video games, not at all. At my old job I was playing basketball with these guys... you couldn't find nicer people. Family men with kids, long-time professionals, polite to others, considerate, well educated - a bunch of us were MScs and PhDs... the works. Then we'd go play pick-up games (or worse, real games in a stupid league for businesses) and you'd see them turn into these crybabies whining about every call, disputing fouls, throwing balls around in disgust (one smashed his phone on the floor, his wife wasn't greatly pleased about that)... it was really bizarre.

Couple that with some anonymity, unaccountability and the fact people who're quite shy and uncharismatic in real life can be the center of attention like they always craved and weird things happen online.

[surreality]

@Arkandel A number of people I've encountered forget the 'other people on the other side of the internet connection' factor somewhat regularly.

I've noticed it more over the past decade than in previous years. I don't know if it's the prevalence of MMOs, or what -- but the instances of 'treating other players like game sprites rather than people' seems to have grown compared to when I started out.

[Coin]

I think what we're all forgetting is how shitty @Shayd is in general, as evidenced by this and other threads on this forum.

So really, him saying that Custodius is a "nice guy offline" isn't really even anecdotal proof of anything, since Custodius could be a total fucking shitdick offline and there's no reason to believe @Shayd would be able to tell the difference.

Thus, arguing this with him is largely moot.

[surreality]

@Coin Custodius and Jeurg are, alas, different assholes.

(As much as I sincerely wish we could consolidate at least one nightmare out of existence.)

[Arkandel]

@surreality What bugs me about it is that more and more games go out of their way to prevent players from communicating with each other at all as an attempt to prevent asshattery. You can't even chat with your opponents in Hearthstone other than with pre-coded things like "well played" or "sorry".