The basketball thread

[Ganymede]

@ThatGuyThere @Arkandel

Well, fine, you assholes, I GUESS YOU'RE RIGHT.

Although, one pundit believes that he left because of Westbrook, and I can kind of believe that.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Ganymede said in The basketball thread:

@ThatGuyThere @Arkandel

Well, fine, you assholes, I GUESS YOU'RE RIGHT.

Although, one pundit believes that he left because of Westbrook, and I can kind of believe that.

I can believe that. While i never heard anything about them not getting along something always seemed forced about their body language when it came to each other.
I also think the Ibaka for Oladipo trade had something to do with it as well.

Topic Change edit: Reports are coming out the Wade will sign with the Bulls. While I know he is not the player he once was I find him leaving the Heat a team he has played on for 3 championships and 13 years rather shocking.

[Ganymede]

@ThatGuyThere said in The basketball thread:

Topic Change edit: Reports are coming out the Wade will sign with the Bulls. While I know he is not the player he once was I find him leaving the Heat a team he has played on for 3 championships and 13 years rather shocking.

Wade is pissed because the Heat aren't paying him like the Lakers paid Kobe. Wade deserves to be the highest paid player on his team, yet has consistently agreed to lesser terms in order to field a contender. Now that the team appears to be struggling, he wants what he deserves -- or what has been deferred. So, he's pissed that the Heat are paying him less than what other teams will.

The Bulls deserve what they pay for: they got rid of one perennially-injured PG for another.

[Arkandel]

I can blame the Lakers for so many things over the years but they honored Kobe, their flagship player, right until his superb last game. They did a big tour of him to say farewell to the league and yes, in the process they probably lost more games than they would have if they had renewed the team - but got draft picks and showed they intend to repay loyalty in kind in the process.

I think Riley fucked this up really badly. DWade is their best, more iconic player ever and they let him go over $7, which is barely enough to get a bench player. They waited on KD, prioritised Whiteside - who's very talented but his work ethic and personality are both suspect - over him despite the guy having barely been there for a season and a half... that's the wrong way to go about it.

The young players on Kobe's last game saw how he was treated by the fans. They will remember, they will want the same for themselves at the end of their careers; free agents take notice of how certain teams elevate their favorites from contracts to legends... and how others rush to shoot horses when they get old.

So yeah, the Heat might enter the playoffs with a little more depth next season...maybe. Maybe they'll rebuild slightly faster... perhaps. But they lost a lot of respect in my eyes.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Ganymede
I agree completely, though I also see the logic of it from the Bulls stand point.
They are stealth-tanking, they can point a big name say hey we are trying to win. All the while knowing they will likely end up in the lottery. they also get the local PR boost of bringing the hometown guy back home. Wade grew up in Chicago, played his college ball at nearby Marquette, this will definitely help the ratings and ticket sales during the rebuilding phase.
Wade gets the cash he deserves, after all regardless of our differences of opinion I would bet we both give him plenty of credit and respect for continually taking less money over the years to help the Heat be able to sign free agents, all the way back to when he took a pay cut to allow them to grab Shaq which lead to the first championship form Wade and franchise. Sadly given his age and the condition of his knees this could have been his last chance for a big contract and I am glad he got it.
For the Heat they lose they face of their franchise but they also made a sound if completely cold hearted business decision. I don't think they will be a better team this year without Wade but I think it will help them going forward since one of the big sticking points between the two sides, at least form the reports I have seen, was Wade wanted a third year from Miami that they were not willing to give.
This is one of those deals that I think ends up benefiting all sides even if it is one most outsiders didn't really want to see.

[Ganymede]

@ThatGuyThere said in The basketball thread:

For the Heat they lose they face of their franchise but they also made a sound if completely cold hearted business decision.

Appearing cold and heartless is not the way to attract good free agents. I expect that Miami will once again not be relevant until they draft someone who has the same star potential as a young D.Wade.

[Arkandel]

@Ganymede said in The basketball thread:

@ThatGuyThere said in The basketball thread:

For the Heat they lose they face of their franchise but they also made a sound if completely cold hearted business decision.

Appearing cold and heartless is not the way to attract good free agents. I expect that Miami will once again not be relevant until they draft someone who has the same star potential as a young D.Wade.

Yeah, that screams of a team that will dump you like an old sweater once you're past your peak.

[ThatGuyThere]

In news that is not surprising but is certainly disappointing, Tim Duncan has officially retired.
I congratulate him on an amazing career and wish him the best in the future. The NBA will be less fun to watch without him.

[Arkandel]

Top-10 player ever, best PF ever (if only because it's easier to classify him in that position and not the overcrowded center one).

And a true class act. Plus the guy plays D&D so there's that.

[Warma Sheen]

@ThatGuyThere I disagree that the NBA will be less fun to watch without him. He was one of the least entertaining basketball players to ever play. He was all about business and rarely looked like he was even having fun. I do think he was one of the best, but certainly not fun to watch and not at all exciting.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Warma-Sheen
There we will have to disagree, there is no team I enjoy watching more then the Spurs and their absolutely beautiful ball movement and his passing (which is damn good, and absolutely amazing for a center) was a big part of that.

[Ganymede]

@Warma-Sheen said in The basketball thread:

I disagree that the NBA will be less fun to watch without him. He was one of the least entertaining basketball players to ever play. He was all about business and rarely looked like he was even having fun. I do think he was one of the best, but certainly not fun to watch and not at all exciting.

I concur with you, but will state that the NBA is substantial less without him. He was the epitome of class and quiet acceptance of fame. I will gladly take another Tim Duncan over Nick Young.

[Arkandel]

@Warma-Sheen I'd disagree with you on that. No, Timmy would never do a 360' dunk when a lay-up counts for the same points (although in his youth he was putting on some pretty spectacular displays of athleticism) but that's not all basketball is about, it's just part of it. If that was the case then Vince Carter would have been considered one of the best ever and he really is not.

Tim played at a high level for longer than almost any other player (Kareem comes to mind), changing his playing style to fit his team and physical limitations following injuries and age, had the presence of mind to allow others a greater role when he could have just let ego rule their decisions - and he certainly had the clout to pull it off - then simply won with his team. No individual player put on a show, you are right, but the group as a whole made for some pretty damn impressive offenses, redefining ball movement and crushing the opposition.

I was supporting the Heat during their last championship run but damn... I've very rarely seen a team be as dominant as the San Antonio Spurs. And Timmy was a huge part of it.

Plus, D&D man! Come on.

[Warma Sheen]

@Arkandel So what part did you disagree with?

[Arkandel]

The NBA had a stellar reputation in the last few years of being the more socially conscious league, enabling its members the freedom to voice their opinions.

Then China happened and that freedom came at a cost.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/sports/basketball/nba-china-hong-kong.html

[Autumn]

@Arkandel The Hong Kong situation has provided an excellent way to distinguish between "genuinely committed to defending human rights" and "happy to posture for the media and the public as long as it's popular and profitable but would sell their own parents for a nickel if they thought it would bring them more business."

[Arkandel]

@Autumn I'm sad about the NBA in particular because it had such a stellar record of fostering independent views within its ranks. It backed players when they protested police brutality on black people, it stood by LeBron when he was told to "shut up and dribble", and even was fine with several championship teams outright refusing to visit Trump's White House which was a long-standing tradition to do.

But now they issue two different statements between the US and China, the latter stating how "deeply disappointed" they are with Morey's 'stand with Hong Kong' tweet while the former was... well, a word salad. They best they could manage is not firing the guy. Gee, thanks NBA!

I get it, I really do. China is a humongous market and they stand to lose a whoooole lot of money. But this is a good test to see where it really stands and so far it's showing some pretty ugly colors.

It's also a good test for the Chinese government to see how strong its leverage is within the US in terms of silencing critics. So far the answer is "pretty damn strong". No player has said a thing to back that up (yet many visit China often and have more than a passing knowledge of what's going on there), no official has made a peep and even most journalists have STFU. ESPN is owned by Disney, the chances of them saying anything is somewhere between slim and zero.

[Ganymede]

Revival for some shout-outs.

Hometown shout-out to the Toronto Raptors for their 15-game winning streak. It looks like Ujiri and Nurse were taking notes when Dayton made a run at the Elite Eight in 2014. Keep a deep bench of hungry, defensive-minded players and feast your opponents when they get tired.

Local shout-out to the Dayton Flyers for making it to No. 6 in the AP Poll. No one -- not even I -- predicted how solid the team would be to date. They are shocking the hell out of NCAA basketball country and some think they may eventually sit in a No. 1 position for March Madness.

[Arkandel]

@Ganymede If Kawhi had stayed I don't think there'd be a question about this year's favorite to win the chip.

As it stands I think it'll go down to the Clippers versus the Bucks.

[Ganymede]

@Arkandel said in The basketball thread:

As it stands I think it'll go down to the Clippers versus the Bucks.

I think the Bucks have a less-impressive lineup this year. I think the Raptors have an under-rated defender in Hollis-Jefferson. I think Philly isn't a juggernaut, which takes Embiid out of the picture. Boston is always dangerous, and the Heat are on the rise; however, if Gasol and Ibaka come back before the playoffs I think the Raptors have a seasoned bench with a chance every night to beat you any way they want.

I think it'll be the Raptors against the Clippers this year, and that's such a sweet showdown I cannot wait.