The 100: The Mush

[Miss Demeanor]

@Kanye-Qwest I think its being brought up because people believe said staff alts seem to be very central, integral characters to everything that happens in the game, rather than say, handing that sort of role off to another PC that might want to do something similar.

Mind, grain of salt. This is what I've cobbled together from reading the thread.

[Kanye Qwest]

@Miss-Demeanor Gotcha. Ok, yeah - that's not great unless they are playing to fulfill a specific role (I think plot antagonists being played by staff is fine, so long as they are identifiable and take down-able.) I guess this is just such a tricky balance. You don't want your staffers to not have fun, but if you are running a game to feature their alts then you get the complaints being seen here: IE make it obvious from the beginning, or invite-only, or what have you.

@ghost Keep playing what? I forgot how to play the only instrument I ever knew.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@Coin said in The 100: The Mush:

What this thread has taught me is that no matter what, "good game" and "bad game" are subjective and people will always find something to praise and something to damn about anything, and that someone will always rise up in defense and someone will always double-down on criticism when that happens.

This is also a new game, one that's gotten a decent influx of activity upfront, so it's kind of in what I think of as the NEW PUPPY stage. Which I'll admit is the reason I decided 'Not for me' after a couple weeks. I find the players at this stage of a game exhausting. In my experience, there's a tendency to over-hype new games they're enjoying as THE BEST GAME EVER, or declare they're doomed after two scenes.

This is helpful in generating momentum, and it makes me hopeful this place will be around in six months, but I can skip it. Also, like @lordbelh said, it means it feels like everything is happening SUPER FAST even though staff has made an effort to slow down the time ratio (I think it's 1 IC day for every 2 RL days right now).

[Ghost]

From an advertising perspective, what I'm really curious about this game (aside from the earlier question about Grey-Grounder staff romance) is this:

1. There are two factions. Are there any non-staff PCs in leadership positions who have the freedom to direct their faction as they see fit, or for both factions, are the factions run by staff NPCs/staff PCs, and these faction heads give direction to the PCs?
2. Have any non-staff PCs been granted the freedom/responsibility to be the inter-faction liaison to perform diplomacy as the player sees fit?
3. For players who feel they are outside of the clique (and perhaps some who are), what is the response like to +jobs or ideas that direct plot, ot tiny plot, in a direction that the non-staff player sees fit?

I think ultimately, the question is, is this a game where the non-staff PCs decide the direction of the game, or is this game a conconcted story idea by staff that will require close monitoring and staff-PC plot control to avoid derivation?

[Arkandel]

@Ghost said in The 100: The Mush:

2. Have any non-staff PCs been granted the freedom/responsibility to be the inter-faction liaison to perform diplomacy as the player sees fit?

I can't fathom a reason to play a PC - staff alt or not - who are not free to act as their player sees fit.

There can and should be consequences, complications and sideeffects, you should obviously consider the theme strongly, but either you control the character or it's an NPC.

[Seraphim73]

@Ghost said in The 100: The Mush:

1. There are two factions. Are there any non-staff PCs in leadership positions who have the freedom to direct their faction as they see fit, or for both factions, are the factions run by staff NPCs/staff PCs, and these faction heads give direction to the PCs?

Grey is a leader in the Delinquent camp, but after consequences for some of his IC actions, there are several other PCs who are equally--if not more--leader-y in camp. Yes, those PCs are free to do as they like. There is not, however, any 'official' leadership on that side. On the Grounder side, there is indeed an NPC leader directing things, but he is only used for plot points or disseminating information to PCs, who are free to take those points or not as they will. He is not a GMPC, and Andromeda's Grounder PC is about as far from a leadership position as is possible without being an actual outcast.

2. Have any non-staff PCs been granted the freedom/responsibility to be the inter-faction liaison to perform diplomacy as the player sees fit?

Yes. Three non-Staff PCs were in charge of Delinquent negotiations with the Grounders. There have also been other PCs (Staff and non-Staff alike) who have attempted less formal negotiations to varying results (including Grey losing a good deal of influence in camp even while his co-conspirators lost very little).

3. For players who feel they are outside of the clique (and perhaps some who are), what is the response like to +jobs or ideas that direct plot, ot tiny plot, in a direction that the non-staff player sees fit?

Staff attempts to discuss/approve/shepherd forward jobs quickly and efficiently. Sometimes, a request doesn't fit theme, but in that case, we try to suggest a themely alternative that still gets the same desired result.

I think ultimately, the question is, is this a game where the non-staff PCs decide the direction of the game, or is this game a conconcted story idea by staff that will require close monitoring and staff-PC plot control to avoid derivation?

It is certainly our desire to see all PCs (Staff and non-Staff alike) able to act as they want within theme, while still receiving guidance from Staff to ensure that the spotlight is shared between PCs appropriately, everyone gets a chance for character development, and the camp doesn't splinter off a dozen different groups of 1-4 Delinquents trying to go it alone (because that's not sustainable as a game or in theme).

Is there a Grounder-Delinquent romance going between two Staff PCs? Yup. And we've made no attempt to hide it, and we fully expect both of them to get negative consequences for it pretty dang soon. There is also at least one other Grounder-Delinquent romance currently ongoing that doesn't involve Staff at all (maybe two, depending on how soon in a process you define "romance").

[Sunny]

To be fair, there was a grounder/delinquent romance in the show, even, and it doesn't really seem unthemely to me.

[Arkandel]

@Sunny True, but unthemely isn't the same thing as commonly acceptable ICly.

[Lithium]

@Coin said in The 100: The Mush:

What this thread has taught me is that no matter what, "good game" and "bad game" are subjective and people will always find something to praise and something to damn about anything, and that someone will always rise up in defense and someone will always double-down on criticism when that happens.

So, really, I guess it didn't teach me a damn thing I didn't already know.

Really the Haven thread nailed that straight into my temples. I mean everyone knew that Dark Metal was a 'bad game' but it had it's charms, and I don't necessarily think that The 100 is a 'bad' game, just that when I played, I had issues and some other things fell apart so I left.

The thing here is that people have experiences, and as soon as anyone says that their experience or opinion doesn't matter, of course that's going to piss people off.

[GirlCalledBlu]

@Arkandel said in The 100: The Mush:

True, but unthemely isn't the same thing as commonly acceptable ICly.

And it shouldn't be.

If the PCs don't bring down the consequences, I have no problem with using Staff NPCs to deliver consequences to my own PC because I know that Grey and Gideon having a relationship is not going to promote her status in the Grounders, and is bound to be a source of scorn in the Delinquents. I'd probably have Orion or Draco (if he's up to it) run that NPC because shunning myself feels strange... (shrugs)

But, I already have PCs promising to punish Gideon, so I'm content.

[gasket]

Since it appears that @ixokai will continue his routine until someone spells it out in small words, I'll be the one to do it.

You are part of the problem.

Go back through your logs, the logs of you out in public, and take a good look at how many of them are full of you telling other people to take their heads out of their asses for having the gall to disagree with your opinion.

You talk a very good talk on here about being willing to talk things over, but in fact pull this exact same routine (I don't see a problem, therefore you are wrong) with a side of passive-aggressiveness, when it's attempted.

If you don't realize you are coming across this way, I don't know what else to say.

You are a good roleplayer, but as proven in multiple points on this thread, some self-awareness would be an excellent addition to the Cameron/Que package.

[GirlCalledBlu]

Alright, so I'm just putting this out there: if there is something going on, on The 100 MUSH that is impacting your ability to have fun there, I invite you to send me a PM on this forum. You can then tell me the situation in detail, provide examples/names, and then I can actually get a better grasp on what is going on beyond "too antagonistic." My perspective may be skewed, and I acknowledge that.

I feel like there is something I have missed beyond "there was just too much PC vs PC tension for me" because it sounds a lot deeper than that. Rather than letting it just go on ignored, I would much rather have people get out all their complaints so I can try to do something about it. And yes, I know, people have said things here, and yes, I will go back and reread everything, but I feel like there's some "I don't want to name names, but..." and that can be hard for me to parse.

I know some of you have moved on and left the game, so you might be giving me info that is "outdated," or maybe you've been following the game via the WIKI and have noticed trends.

Thanks in advance to those willing to do so.

[Miss Demeanor]

@GirlCalledBlu I don't think you quite get it. Its not necessarily a single person for each character, or specific interactions. Its more of an attitude that's being perpetuated enough that its turning people off in general. I think its less that X, Y, and Z are being assholes all the time as every time some characters go IC they end up having to deal with AN asshole. It may not be the same person every time, and those people may not be assholes ALL the time. But its something that's happening enough overall that its either driving people away from the game, keeping them from joining the game, or in some cases, maybe even just having them suffer in silence while hoping it gets better.

I don't think it would be too much to ask to just post a general announcement saying 'Hey, we're getting kind of a reputation for being a game of assholes, can we try to tone down the IC antagonism towards each other a bit?' Yes, some people might whine and complain about WrongFun. Congratulations, you've just found your asshole players! Anyone that can't handle NOT being a dick ALL THE TIME, or thinking that you're insisting on or enforcing a hugs'n'kisses setting by asking them to be a little more conscientious ICly? That's the asshole that's driving people away.

[surreality]

As a suggestion from someone who was considering playing there, it's worth noting that at least in terms of the show, even the assholes tended to know they needed to get over themselves long enough to get things done once in a while. They might have been making bad decisions, or being grumbling grudging jerks whilst doing so, but they did, on the whole, seem to realize, "Hey, we're going to starve to death/die after a raid/etc. unless we stop arguing with each other long enough to actually do something about the problem."

One of the other notable things in the source material is, unfortunately, that yes, there are indeed a lot of people so invested in being irresponsible dicks that Protagonist/AntiHero/PersonWithTheClueAtTheMoment has to strike out on their own and Do The Thing That Needs Doing because not even a cattle prod to the nethers will get everyone else on board/out of bed/over themselves long enough to get it done. This is hard in a MUX environment, which is why I dub it 'unfortunate'. Players want in on things, which is good -- but that's not, actually, how things are always handled in the source material, because of the kind of characters present.

This means the balancing act for a collaborative environment here is going to be a little harder than it would be for a screenwriter; it's basically just something to keep in mind. Basically, you'll want to either add in some support (if it isn't present already and I'm not going to assume either way on this front) for people striking out on their own in this way To Do The Thing, and/or more collaboration to allow for more inclusion needs to be encouraged OOCly.

[GirlCalledBlu]

@Miss-Demeanor said in The 100: The Mush:

I don't think you quite get it

You're right, I don't. But I'm trying to.

[lordbelh]

@Miss-Demeanor Eh. A very big eh. People are supposed to not play bitchy/assholey characters on a game full of delinquent teenage PCs, because some people would like more IC conscientious characters? I would very much hate a game where Staff went: 'please guys, make your characters nicer, we're getting a reputation.' My thought would be: a game that isn't reduced to hug town is a great place to be. Mind, my experience of the game leans heavily towards there's tons of friendly hugtown style play on it, with only a handful of really abrasive characters.

[Lithium]

Even Bellamy wasn't a dick 100% of the time.

[lordbelh]

@Lithium said in The 100: The Mush:

Even Bellamy wasn't a dick 100% of the time.

I doubt there's a single character on the game who is a dick 100 % of the time to 100% of the people. That's not how these things go.

[Lithium]

You are probably right. I wish I had ran into situations where that didn't seem to be the case. When I was there it was one big asshole after another: Do what I say or starve. You can't use this unless you fight me for it. If you go against me I'll kill you in your sleep.

There was so much angst and asshole that it is all we ever remember seeing, even if we did see other stuff, because it got drowned out.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@lordbelh said in The 100: The Mush:

I would very much hate a game where Staff went: 'please guys, make your characters nicer, we're getting a reputation.'

Yeah, this. If anything, hearing that there's some ongoing IC conflict makes me more interested to poke my head back in down the line, because it's so easy for environments like this to become overly hugtown-y.

The OOC side of this is trickier because, as stated earlier by many in the thread, most people play 'WOE AS ME I AM THE ANGSTIEST' stuff as just really boring and tedious after awhile. But that's a different problem, and one not unique to this game by any means.