Best posts made by AmishRakeFight

I'll start by saying this: I don't fundamentally approach games as a private space. They're taking place online, where no reasonable expectation of privacy really can exist. So, by extension, if its online anywhere, its not going to be private because by its fundamental nature, it just can't be.

What you are doing by logging into games is taking part in a sort of calculated risk. You're essentially acknowledging that in order to participate you're giving up your claim to true privacy in this matter and that the benefits of a good story and some fun times outweigh your need to keep it all beyond the notice and evaluation of other people.

And that's just kind of life, y'know? You give to get something, no matter what it is. And if you don't want something to be shared online, in any online medium, don't do that thing or say that thing or share that thing.

This is not justifying spying, persay but I do think its important to define what we mean by spying and privacy on games. Dark staff in a private room on grid watching two players typesex at each other? Yeah, that's fuckin' creepy and inappropriate and a violation of a certain fundamental trust that players assign to staff to demonstrate that they have good judgement and not do shit like that. And that to me is really what we're talking about when we negatively talk about privacy and spying on games:

We're basically saying that the staff on this game doesn't have good judgment, which is to me a much bigger problem than just dark watching people typediddle each other.

Watching actions as they take place in IC areas, either as a visible staff member or a dark staff member? I'm less bothered by this. You're in a public grid space on a game and much the same way backgrounded NPCs who are assumed to just be in public ICly with you; it seems odd to me that you draw the line at staff not being allowed to be there and be a bystanding witness to shooting fireballs out your eyes or whatever it is you're doing in a public space.

Years ago, I was staff on a game where NPCs could be used to watch goings on in game. The reasons for that were related solely to this game. It was a RP-enforced MUD and players had a relatively frequent habit of attacking NPCs for their trash drops. It got to be a big problem because while it was a MUD; it was consciously and explicitly designed not to function that way. And that wasn't some unspoken thing. It was written into game policy, so players knew what they were and weren't getting into.

So, when the NPCs were modified to allow for 'spying', it was to monitor people abusing them. The NPCs also were written to defend themselves if they were attacked, but never instigate an attack. (Well except one but the NPC was actually nuts, all its environmental messages made it clear that it was nuts, and that if you molested it, it was going to attack you.) If we were feeling up for it, staff could also control the NPC to RP with people. The players actually liked this because you never knew what you were getting: a dark NPC or a staff piloted NPC who might do more than deliver a few repetitive action messages or muttered character phrases at you before they sold you something or whatever their basic function.

Occasionally, you'd forget to turn off the ability to watch through the NPCs. I never kept it on all the time because many of the NPCs had an IC grid circuit that they wandered and it was spammy as fuck. I'd also like to note that these NPCs never went anywhere private unless a PC player grappled and dragged them into that grid space. And we'd basically have to tell players not to do that and port the NPC back on to a public grid square to resume its wandering around on a limited route.

And occasionally, I'd see things that I didn't want to see: people boning each other ICly in public cafes or bars or stores was usually the thing no one wanted to watch. Places where anyone can walk in at any time for any reason and see this thing going down. So to me, if you're going to get up to something that you shouldn't probably be doing in a public grid space, then... you can't really get weird about being watched.

YMMV.

Just today, I was reading another story on Gawker media about the impotent, entitled nerdrage being hurled George RR Martin's way because he hasn't yet finished The Winter Winds.

There are enough of our brethren that operate with the unhinged notion that Mr. Martin owes them a book on their preferred schedule due to a set of negative emotions that lands somewhere between 'expectations so high not even God can sing in that key' and 'an unhinged grip on the fabric of reality'.

Now, apply that to a pay-for-play MUSH.

Can you even imagine?

People who don't understand the theme and just need a little help to 'get it', aren't really the problem.

People who don't under understand theme and make it clear that they don't want to be bothered, generally have a difficulty with accepting consequences for their IC behavior whatever it may be.

Worse yet, is the above happening and the staff running the game try in heavy handed, shark jumping stripes attempt to drop theme on the game like a tone deaf anvil while all their personal PCs are theme exempt.

The problem too with passive avoidance is that I think its well intended from the avoiders, too. Too often, there have been experiences that go like this:

Avoidee: I keep asking for RP and no one responds. I used to be more involved in plots but I'm no longer included. Do you know why?
Avoider: Uh... wellllll.....
Avoidee: Tell me! Please! What did I do wrong?!
Avoider: Your PC seems to have trouble integrating into RP of x nature/You have a habit of doing x thing and it's made other people uncomfortable/Some other reason delivered as honestly but kindly as possible
Avoidee: <Massive Freakout Melt Down Butthurt Drama Explosion>

It's tough because no one wants to be told they're not fitting in even if the reasons are valid and fixable. It's tough because no one wants to be the one to do the telling especially when you don't know this player and you have no idea how they'll take it and then if you do, you get shot at as the messenger so you're not anxious to repeat that experience either.

A good number of people in our hobby probably struggled with feeling included and socially accepted IRL growing up or even now. They didn't have or don't have the social skills in their offline lives to cultivate a sense of feeling included or popular or accepted and/or they were bullied a lot by other individuals who sensed some sort of 'apart of the herd' quality and went after these individuals, often pretty brutally. So I think now as a adults and as a community we're really reluctant to participate in dynamics that do this to other people in really obvious and on the nose ways, because the line between addressing something constructively and destructively tearing someone down is often very blurry and the topic is just so loaded.

So the person who has alienated themselves continues to do so without understanding how or why and a lot of us understand the how or the why but don't feel like telling this person will actually empower the situation and unfortunately too often bitch amongst ourselves.

So it just gets weirder and divisive as time goes on.

A co-worker just gave me their Pax Prime pass.

Eeeeeee.

I think college is good for some people but there are a lot of people who are going to college not because they think they need to, its because they think they should. Often, its because of applied pressure from family or friends, when the pressure being exacted isn't being at all examined as to why its necessary for this person to be in college.

Does this person really want to be a dentist? Well, then, yeah, college is a necessary thing.

But there are a lot professions out there that don't require college and you can make a comfortable happy living. So I think it just depends on what it is you want to study and whether having a degree really makes a difference. There are plenty of trade schools out there will get you set up and moving towards a comfortable profession, most of these are more manual positions.

But shit, if someone had told me what electricians make when I was in school? I probably would have re-thought the necessity of my needing a college degree.

Dogs In the Vineyard

I am angry because it is unreasonably hot and no one here has air conditioning.

I am angry because some poopstick is going to buy a bunch of fireworks from the rez and set them off into some tinder dry brush and burn down this stupidly hot land.

And we still won't have air conditioning.

In my experience, there tends to be a certain constantly recurring pattern with complainants on games. Or, rather, a certain kind of complainant.

There are definitely people who legitimately do something dumb and have to be talked to because you get a preponderance of logs from more than one unrelated source reflecting this or they're just stupid enough to do it on a channel or in a public area where the staff member sees it themselves.

But I'm not talking about that kind of player. I'm talking about the player who is perpetually tattling on a player or a group of players they've decided is the sole source of every woe on the game, real or imagined. Usually imagined and it usually roots down into a classic case of sour grapes grindy axe because they got outfoxed or outclassed or were socially rejected or not picked for some IC kickball team or some combination of these things (in or out of character) by this player/group.

Asking for logs is a nonstarter because they just don't have them and are working off heresay or the logs they do provide when read by a third party not layering a certain kind of tone in an interaction aren't actually reflective of anything other than the player just not liking the outcome of something. At that point, the error is really more about this case of sour grapes grindy axe that this player has come down with and won't be cured until they use every fit of pique until the object of their scorn is run off the game by staff.

I have a hardline view about that sort of thing in that part of the reason why that kind of person poisons the game atmosphere for as long as they do is because game staff collectively lets them. They don't want to police feelings or social slap fights but in doing so, they empower this player to hold OOC court among other players to rumormonger and witchhunt. The conversation that can avoid this kind of situation probably shouldn't be 'please provide a log'; it really should be 'if you're struggling to just be mildly content with your lot here; maybe this game isn't for you'.

@Miss-Demeanor Why does anyone want a pointy hat position in a game? They are all bullshit meetings, being the social cruise director, and being unable to meet expectations that are put on you by various individuals, even the people who like you a lot and have the best of intentions. It's often just some masochistic exercise in running a mental marathon. Some people flourish in these roles; most people flame out because the nature of the thing sets them up to fail.

ETA: They want them anyway because there no matter how tedious and friendship pyre inducing; a title has a significance. It suggests you deserve the role even if you don't. We all want to feel like we're good enough at what we do in these games to warrant this kind of recognition. It's not solely about ego but that's a big part of it.

Bingo at the Indian Casino.

Classy as fuck.

(No I mostly cannot explain this. Well kind of, which is: Bingo halls are the epitome of hopelessly unable to put on any sort of pretense. It's so come as you are and we're all here to strictly not give a fuck that its kind of liberating.)

Poly in RP: I've never tried it. I think it's probably a very bad idea if you don't have a pretty good handle on yourself as a self and your ability to handle the inherent insecurities and jealousies that will result or if you already know that you as a player aren't good with this kind of varsity-level person sharing. From everything I've been witness to about poly relationships in character/in games it seems to largely take the player's personality flaws, seal them in a bag with hornets, and then beats that bag with a stick. It's impossible to have fun in character with IC Relationship Twister if you're just tortured and miserable as a player.

That said, the venn diagram of gamers and polyamory is a thing so it happens a fair amount. The success rate of it usually ain't great.

Vampire Sex: It mostly depends on the clan and the rules system nWoD v. oWoD. Certain clans in both old/new have progressive ideas about the role and use of sex, but its largely always a lever being pulled to get another means to an end. For example, some Tremere Houses in oWoD canon have an interest in sex as it fits into magical practice but its not about wibbly bits, just magical study. The Daeva in Requiem use sexuality to feed.

It also depends on the age of the character. A neonate is probably going to be more likely to have some interest in sex but I've always seen it as a remnant of their humanity and biological programming. Much older vampires tend to have no use for it and have stopped taking notice a long time ago.

But vampire players are people and we're all biologically driven towards sex, so no matter what the canon might suggest we do, some people always gonna textfuck in vampire. It's just one of those things.

@Three-Eyed-Crow Oh definitely that too. I think there are some people that really look at it as an opportunity to make a bunch of stuff happen in terms of running events and making the interesting stuff go. That's legit but that's a rarer bird that's in it to sprinkle the RP creation dust around. Some are successful but many burnout quickly.

At this point, I'll be persuaded into literally almost anything.

Relatively easy to follow CG, staff that don't have too much overt drama going on, and a fairly cooperative playerbase, that is generally all there to play the same game and accepts that conflict can be PvE or PvP.

I ask too much most of the time.

@Saulot said:

As well, player versus player conflict, political intrigues, and the like will not be present.

I get the intention half the splats you're wanting to run are based on hierarchical societies. Hierarchical societies are by their very existence political; that's why they're stratified. Some of these splats could be made or are somewhat egalitarian but uhhhh egalitarian werewolf and vampire seems more than a little doomed.

Going one step further, if you want there to be no veil then all the politics that will exist on the game will become entirely internal, except you don't want politics so--

I'm not really sure what you expect players to do other than attack the monster of the week or attend a lot of parties?

I spent ~6 hours kayaking today. I won't be able to lift my arms tomorrow but it was a low wind, warm water, no pedal rudder vs. current kind of day.

I feel like metaplots are successful when:

• They are short lived. The story is over and done within six months or less.

• The game population is small. I'm talking 50 PCs or less.

• There is a total common understanding of the goals, aims, and story from start to finish from all levels of staff from plot runners to scene STs.

• The overall story needs to have some flexibility so that if a key PC with really important information dies in character, idles out due to RL, or leaves the game for OOC reasons that nothing hinges on one person or group.

• PC actions may completely alter the course of things and staff should let this happen, even if it results in mass PC death. Staff are up front about this, remind PCs this could really, really happen, and there will be no Deus Ex-Machinas if they really cock it up. Put another way: no rails to save feelings.

Once the holidays pass and its freezing and miserable and its never going to be shorts weather again, people will be more active to avoid going outside.